General Precolonial Philippines Ideas Thread

I wonder why nobody thought of a Mongol "invasion" POD.

Let's say some ships of Yuan invasion fleet heading to Java got struck by a storm, drifts away, and lands somewhere in Luzon.

The founder of Majapahit who allied with the Mongols is married to the female ruler of Namayan, so there is no need, what should happen is the founder of Majapahit makes his filipina wife his favorite over his Javanese wife.
 
Asia-wank means Philippines becomes a part of the Chinese or Indian cultural sphere. Or part of the eastern half of Dar al-Islam. Either way, the "Philippines" does not exist, but rather something completely different. Perhaps a mere extension of a Bruneian or Banjarmasin hegemonic empire. Perhaps the southernmost tip of the Chinese cultural sphere. Perhaps both, considering how disparate the cultures of our nation were before the Spanish.

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As a nation, the Philippines was born in 1565 and reached its coming of age in 1898. Unfortunately, most label the centuries between these as mere "Spanish oppression". Which is incredibly unfair and unnuanced. There was oppression, yes, and it was a colony with all that that implies, but there was also a lot of history in which we were bound to the fates of the Spanish empire and Catholicism in East Asia, and through them the world at large. None of this would have happened without Spain.

If Nagasaki was the East Asian Rome, then Manila and Cebu were the Jerusalem and Antioch.

But anyway, that's stuff for historiography. We're talking about the region before 1565. So...

The only PoD I can think of is Sultan Bolkiah's invasion. All the other sources readily available just feel too unreliable. Like trying to figure out a historical timeline for King Arthur.

Agreed with this, Timaeus.
 
I think the best scenario POD would be for the Spanish/Portugues to colonize Java/Bali instead and the Majapahit remnants flee to Majapahit lands in the Philippines.
 
I think the best scenario POD would be for the Spanish/Portugues to colonize Java/Bali instead and the Majapahit remnants flee to Majapahit lands in the Philippines.

Spain is there for China, so you're better off blowing them off course to Taiwan instead.
 

Red Horse

The founder of Majapahit who allied with the Mongols is married to the female ruler of Namayan, so there is no need, what should happen is the founder of Majapahit makes his filipina wife his favorite over his Javanese wife.

No, it's irrelevant.

The Mongol invasion came before Raden Wijaya founded the Majapahit. In fact, it was the Mongols who gave him the chance to consolidate his powerbase.
 
No, it's irrelevant.

The Mongol invasion came before Raden Wijaya founded the Majapahit. In fact, it was the Mongols who gave him the chance to consolidate his powerbase.
What about having Raden Wijaya just stay in the Philippines and focus on what he has, which was he is ruling de jure uxoris..he can stay allied with the Mongols or have his OTL FILIPINA wife married to one of the younger bros of Kublai Khan.

Spain is there for China, so you're better off blowing them off course to Taiwan instead.
No, that is because the Spanish want to break the Portuguese Monopoly on the East Indies, if the Spanish inherit the Portuguese throne and colonize Bali and Java as well as Maluku and Ternate, there is NO need.
 
This is an idea

What if a Chinese Emperor from Yuan or Ming picks a princess from Tondo as his Empress, the chinese did marry a Korean, she is known as Empress Gi, is this even possible, I think if it does happen Luzon will be known as Jingguo.
 
What about having Raden Wijaya just stay in the Philippines and focus on what he has, which was he is ruling de jure uxoris..he can stay allied with the Mongols or have his OTL FILIPINA wife married to one of the younger bros of Kublai Khan.


No, that is because the Spanish want to break the Portuguese Monopoly on the East Indies, if the Spanish inherit the Portuguese throne and colonize Bali and Java as well as Maluku and Ternate, there is NO need.

You're placing political ideals and concepts into a time and place where they do not apply. There is no nation that is the Philippines, only Tagalogs and other groups in Luzon, a bunch of ethnic groups in Visayas, and the Sultanate of Sulu. And even that principality is closer to the Muslims of Java than anything close to a Philippine nation.

If the Spanish colonize Java and Bali, THAT would be the ATL Philippines. If the Spanish went to Taiwan instead, THAT would be the ATL Philippines. Not the region with disparate polities, which would be an extension of a Bruneian empire in the south, or perhaps a Chinese sea kingdom in the north. Or perhaps even both.
 
You're placing political ideals and concepts into a time and place where they do not apply. There is no nation that is the Philippines, only Tagalogs and other groups in Luzon, a bunch of ethnic groups in Visayas, and the Sultanate of Sulu. And even that principality is closer to the Muslims of Java than anything close to a Philippine nation.

If the Spanish colonize Java and Bali, THAT would be the ATL Philippines. If the Spanish went to Taiwan instead, THAT would be the ATL Philippines. Not the region with disparate polities, which would be an extension of a Bruneian empire in the south, or perhaps a Chinese sea kingdom in the north. Or perhaps even both.

Luzon will be the only remaining part of Majapahit if the Spanish capture Bali and Java as well as the Muslims islamising the Peninsula and Sumatra and Borneo, yes Luzon will not be Philippines at this time but rather, Java, Timor, Bali and parts of Borneo will be Miguelines or Manuelinhas.

The people in Luzon were largely hindu and pagan at the time spanish came so a Majapahit successor in Luzon is still a possibility.
 
Luzon will be the only remaining part of Majapahit if the Spanish capture Bali and Java as well as the Muslims islamising the Peninsula and Sumatra and Borneo, yes Luzon will not be Philippines at this time but rather, Java, Timor, Bali and parts of Borneo will be Miguelines or Manuelinhas.

The people in Luzon were largely hindu and pagan at the time spanish came so a Majapahit successor in Luzon is still a possibility.

The Majapahit are rooted in Java and the culture of the southern East Indies. Our islands, were never part of their sphere save in the extreme south.

Think of it this way: India is China, Majapahit is Japan, and our region is the Ainu. Before the Philippines, Luzon and Visayas are at the periphery of an already peripheral region of a cultural sphere.
 
The Majapahit are rooted in Java and the culture of the southern East Indies. Our islands, were never part of their sphere save in the extreme south.

Think of it this way: India is China, Majapahit is Japan, and our region is the Ainu. Before the Philippines, Luzon and Visayas are at the periphery of an already peripheral region of a cultural sphere.

Luzon, Mindanao and Sulu weren't backwater, if there is a place that is backwater it would be visayas.

Luzon and Sulu were strategic for the majapahit because majapahit traded with Japan and China through them.
 
I wonder why nobody thought of a Mongol "invasion" POD.

Let's say some ships of Yuan invasion fleet heading to Java got struck by a storm, drifts away, and lands somewhere in Luzon.

OTL Manila area is the best location, IMO.

Interesting idea. Hope to see a TL out of this. Imagine the possibilities.
 
This is an idea

What if a Chinese Emperor from Yuan or Ming picks a princess from Tondo as his Empress, the chinese did marry a Korean, she is known as Empress Gi, is this even possible, I think if it does happen Luzon will be known as Jingguo.

Isn't that too ASB? We're really far from China, unlike Goryeo which is basically just an extension of their kingdom. The Yellow Emperors didn't even marry a Japanese princess, which is closer to them than us. And we're too unimportant for them to consider a dynastic marriage.
 
I did open up the thought on my Sinicized Philippines thread of the Mongols vassalizing the pre-hispanic Filipino states.

Something new to think about, what about possibility of Japanese traders transforming Aparri into a city-state? It was established as a trading post and I think it would be interesting to see a Japanese state on the Northern Luzon coast.

We should turn this into a repository of prehispanic Filipino threads. If we could gather and search for all of the threads pertaining to a prehispanic Philippines and put it on here. @Captain Orange you should post the link of them onto the opening post.

Here are mine that I started a long time ago.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=317417

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=336652

Also here is a map of pre-hispanic Philippines.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Philippines_(pre_1521).jpg
 
I did open up the thought on my Sinicized Philippines thread of the Mongols vassalizing the pre-hispanic Filipino states.

Something new to think about, what about possibility of Japanese traders transforming Aparri into a city-state? It was established as a trading post and I think it would be interesting to see a Japanese state on the Northern Luzon coast.

We should turn this into a repository of prehispanic Filipino threads. If we could gather and search for all of the threads pertaining to a prehispanic Philippines and put it on here. @Captain Orange you should post the link of them onto the opening post.

Here are mine that I started a long time ago.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=317417

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=336652

Also here is a map of pre-hispanic Philippines.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Philippines_(pre_1521).jpg
I was told by a certain historian that the current prehispanic Philippine historiography is wrong.
 
Please don't call them "prehispanic Filipino" states. That implies they are one culture. They're proto-Filipino at best.

And that map feels off somehow.
 
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