General Election 2010: Five Podiums Debate?

There's beena timeline discussing thepossibility of UKIP gaining representation at the party leader's debates prior to the General election? What is the possibility of there being a fifth party leader in addition to Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems and UKIP?

Next in terms of votes was the BNP but given how Nick Griffin went down on BBC Question time, this might be unlikely.

Next in terms of profile, (Arguably) is the Greens, and personally I'd love to see how Caroline Lucas would do against Brown, Cameron Clegg and Farage.

An alternative is a debate featuring regional party leaders as well.
 
I think that TL got UKIP on based on a flaw in drawing up the rules. Everyone try to avoid a situation where you got the Griffin QT car crash all over again. Caroline Lucas would do well in debates; does anyone have figures as to how many seats each party had in local government? Even now, the Greens have more than UKIP.
 
The trouble with throwing a fifth one in there is that really you're more likely to throw in a sixth, seventh and eighth in too. UKIP was *just* pushing it in Fourth Lectern (the requirement for an MP, cue Bob Spink re-defecting), but any conditions that allow the BNP or Greens in would allow in everyone else, and you'd end up with the kind of debates you see in STV countries.

An ASB TL about an STV 2010 campaign would be fun reading. Perhaps some of the venerable 2010 TL writers should collaborate on one?
 

Thande

Donor
The Greens wouldn't do well in 2010 because environmental issues had fallen by the wayside due to the economy--which was of course also a major problem for Cameron, because he had made that a centrepiece of his whole modernisation thing, and then by the time the election rolled around, nobody cared. The Greens were the only one of the 'big three' minor parties at the time (the others being BNP and UKIP) to see their voteshare go down in 2010. Of course, this didn't matter because their leadership had a better idea of how to win a seat by concentrating their efforts. If Lucas had somehow got a podium at the debate, then it might have put the Greens into a position to try for another couple of seats where they're strong like Norwich South, but equally it might have made them overconfident and led to them splitting their campaigning too thinly so they lose the seat they won in OTL. The main effect of increased awareness of the Greens would probably be a few more seats going to the Tories, as the Greens would provide another acceptable protest vote for disaffected Labour supporters and could potentially act as a spoiler in a few seats.

If Brown had called an election in 2007 after becoming PM, that would probably be the best circumstances of the past few decades for the Greens to do well (barring that weird blip in the 80s where they did bizarrely well in the European elections for reasons I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for).
 
The trouble with throwing a fifth one in there is that really you're more likely to throw in a sixth, seventh and eighth in too. UKIP was *just* pushing it in Fourth Lectern (the requirement for an MP, cue Bob Spink re-defecting), but any conditions that allow the BNP or Greens in would allow in everyone else, and you'd end up with the kind of debates you see in STV countries.

An ASB TL about an STV 2010 campaign would be fun reading. Perhaps some of the venerable 2010 TL writers should collaborate on one?

I'd love to write one if I had the political knowhow. Where Tony Blair somehow gets STV through before giving Gordon the finger and leaving office.

( Another ive had in my head is where the Alliance manage to get STV through in 1983 and this leads to a total fracture of british political parties. Vote New Social Democrat!)
 
I'd love to write one if I had the political knowhow. Where Tony Blair somehow gets STV through before giving Gordon the finger and leaving office.

( Another ive had in my head is where the Alliance manage to get STV through in 1983 and this leads to a total fracture of british political parties. Vote New Social Democrat!)

It would be fun, but would have to be ASB unless we went back to the 1920s attempts to bring in STV, and that would lead to butterflies that probably mean Anthony Blair becomes a corporate lawyer for Esso. There's just no way you can get STV through in the 2005-2010 parliament without cataclysmic events (which would change the campaign as we know it for other reasons by their nature) or ASBs. Just have Brown push it through in May 2009 because Derek the Outraged Taxi Driver ASB goes mad after reading about the expenses scandal.
 
Surely Alec Salmond would be apoplectic if UKIP and the Greens got a place before he did.

And he would have a point too.

SNP councillors in 2010 would be >300
 
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It would be fun, but would have to be ASB unless we went back to the 1920s attempts to bring in STV, and that would lead to butterflies that probably mean Anthony Blair becomes a corporate lawyer for Esso. There's just no way you can get STV through in the 2005-2010 parliament without cataclysmic events (which would change the campaign as we know it for other reasons by their nature) or ASBs. Just have Brown push it through in May 2009 because Derek the Outraged Taxi Driver ASB goes mad after reading about the expenses scandal.

... Tempting. Would skew the GE completely differently including people's voting patters. Thing is, straight forward STV? Additional member? multiple person constituiencies ?
 
The Greens wouldn't do well in 2010 because environmental issues had fallen by the wayside due to the economy--which was of course also a major problem for Cameron, because he had made that a centrepiece of his whole modernisation thing, and then by the time the election rolled around, nobody cared. The Greens were the only one of the 'big three' minor parties at the time (the others being BNP and UKIP) to see their voteshare go down in 2010. Of course, this didn't matter because their leadership had a better idea of how to win a seat by concentrating their efforts. If Lucas had somehow got a podium at the debate, then it might have put the Greens into a position to try for another couple of seats where they're strong like Norwich South, but equally it might have made them overconfident and led to them splitting their campaigning too thinly so they lose the seat they won in OTL. The main effect of increased awareness of the Greens would probably be a few more seats going to the Tories, as the Greens would provide another acceptable protest vote for disaffected Labour supporters and could potentially act as a spoiler in a few seats.

If Brown had called an election in 2007 after becoming PM, that would probably be the best circumstances of the past few decades for the Greens to do well (barring that weird blip in the 80s where they did bizarrely well in the European elections for reasons I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for).

A 2007 election TL would be fascinating anyway! though I think the Green's Brighton win was helped by Brown's Premiership.

And agreed on them spreading themselves thin. the Greens batter away at seats one at a time, slowly gaining votes area by area, building up people's confidence in them and opinion of them before moving onto the next.

Based on this, we should have a Green majority some time in the mid 24th century, and no one will have seen it coming.


Surely Alec Salmond would be apoplectic if UKIP and the Greens got a place before he did.

And he would have a point too.

True, but they could argue they're not a national party. If the SNP are allowed on, then Plaid Cymru should too, and then the Northern Irish parties, etc.
 
True, but they could argue they're not a national party. If the SNP are allowed on, then Plaid Cymru should too, and then the Northern Irish parties, etc.

What is a national party?

There were no Conservatives elected in Scotland in the 2005 General Election. In the 2005 election the SNP scored higher than the Greens (who scored higher than PC)
 

Thande

Donor
It was explicitly said in the requirements for the debates in 2010 that you needed to stand in all areas of the UK to qualify (and I think to stand a certain number of candidates as well).

I remember one doing a PM list where, as part of a crackdown on the Troubles, the government changed the election law so only parties that stand in all 4 countries get election funding or something, and (as this was in the 70s) the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the SDLP formed a united front with the Wessex Regionalists and Mebyon Kernow in order to qualify :D
 
It was explicitly said in the requirements for the debates in 2010 that you needed to stand in all areas of the UK to qualify (and I think to stand a certain number of candidates as well).

I remember one doing a PM list where, as part of a crackdown on the Troubles, the government changed the election law so only parties that stand in all 4 countries get election funding or something, and (as this was in the 70s) the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the SDLP formed a united front with the Wessex Regionalists and Mebyon Kernow in order to qualify :D

I quite like that idea. A Devolutionary party, unstable but sizeable,
 
What is a national party?

There were no Conservatives elected in Scotland in the 2005 General Election. In the 2005 election the SNP scored higher than the Greens (who scored higher than PC)

A national party stands in every country. The Tories stood in Scotland in 2005. Northern Ireland was an exception for the debate qualifications in 2010 for obvious reasons (although, incidentally, UCUNF meant the Tories were technically standing in NI).
 
Surely Alec Salmond would be apoplectic if UKIP and the Greens got a place before he did.

And he would have a point too.

SNP councillors in 2010 would be >300

Even if the 'Regionalist Alliance' went ahead it likely wouldn't be Salmond, he wasn't standing for a Westminster seat. It would likely be Angus McNeil or Elfyn Llwyd.
 
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Thande

Donor
Er, the Tories did win a seat in Scotland in 2005. And 2001. 1997 is the only election in history where they didn't win any. But as Meadow says, it's about where you stand, not where you win.
 
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