The fascists (and the Nazis in particular) had other methods in mind to “solve” this problem...
"Gay 'friendly' fascism' or such ideology?
- Thread starter The Ubbergeek
- Start date
I wonder if a form of Gnostism or such could do it... Left Hand.
I am not sure, slavery would be maybe THE way to use... undermensch for them. And more since Antiquity did it....
This may be an Antiquity-'fetishism' thing...
I am not sure, slavery would be maybe THE way to use... undermensch for them. And more since Antiquity did it....
This may be an Antiquity-'fetishism' thing...
How about a POD around 800 AD. Scandinavian kings don't accept Christianity in as a way to dominate their people, rather they enforce a form of Odinism and Wootanism and ease Thor out of their religion to a minor deity. Most everything else can evolve similarly to OTL till about the late 1800s, when Christian missionaries/mercenaries from Southern, and Western Europe start visiting Germany and Scandinavia. In the mean time communists from the East start Rabble rousing there too.
Could very well see a Hitler type rise in Germany.
Being that during the Wiemar republic OTL there were many homosexuals in Germany associated with the movies and entertainment industry who were very aggressively effeminate it gave rise to an anti gayness. If we take that out and rather then that have the infiltrators condemning Northern Europe's acceptance of homosexuality, I could see a militant group of gays gaining political and possibly military power.
Someone you might want to research for your TL especially is Adolf Brand.
And from a later time you might want to read the Pink Swastika.
Could very well see a Hitler type rise in Germany.
Being that during the Wiemar republic OTL there were many homosexuals in Germany associated with the movies and entertainment industry who were very aggressively effeminate it gave rise to an anti gayness. If we take that out and rather then that have the infiltrators condemning Northern Europe's acceptance of homosexuality, I could see a militant group of gays gaining political and possibly military power.
Someone you might want to research for your TL especially is Adolf Brand.
And from a later time you might want to read the Pink Swastika.
Spartans were not gay, they just had a different kind of homophobia. They had strong male bonding but beat the shit out of people who actually got caught engaging in gay sex. To an Ancient Greek or Roman, being penetrated made you something near subhuman, something that should happen to only slaves, foreigners and women! This doesn't mean they didn't do it, but it tells us that it wasn't accepted as normal or good. Whereas on the other hand straight sex was hailed as a divine experience in Pagan culture (to assume Pagan = Gay is completely inaccurate) to the Greeks and Romans gay sex always involved one man submitting to another, which to the Proud Ancients was utterly abhorrent. They sure as hell had gay sex in Greek and Roman times, as their art and culture tells us, but that's like assuming upon seeing modern day gay literature that "Americans" were gay. Just as today, you'd do the act with a consenting mate and be hated for it by large numbers of people. For example, at a Triumph Roman soldiers would sing a song mocking their commander, and the commander would have to in good spirit sit through it to show what a good sport he was. The only time Caesar took offense at such a song was when it described him as having sex (in the submissive position) with the King of Pontus. They did it, but they weren't proud of it.
This would need to involve a massive POD, mate.
But, too help you, Yukio Mishima.
This would need to involve a massive POD, mate.
But, too help you, Yukio Mishima.
But there were exceptions: the Theban Sacred Band was the elite unit of Thebes and was composed of couples of homosexual lovers.
Maponus, notice I used the word Romantism and derivative. An 'idealised', kinda 'romantised' (and probably not totaly right indeed) view of the past, amongst other things.. see what I means?
They may see Sparta and Thebes as an ideal...
They may see Sparta and Thebes as an ideal...
My feeling is you would need a kind of fascism that embraces the sex drive as something to be celebrated as a 'manly/womanly' thing to do. Fascism tends to be syncretist in strange ways and I'm sure you could find a non-Christian religion whose belief structure would mesh well with the parades-and-scenery-chewing-bombastic-speeches that characterizes militant ideologies like fascism.
Such a religion would need to be relatively tolerant of sex, and treat any sex as a kind of divine expression of humanity, or somesuch.
Such a religion would need to be relatively tolerant of sex, and treat any sex as a kind of divine expression of humanity, or somesuch.
Christianity went from "blessed are the peacemakers", "camel through the eye of the needle easier than rich man in heaven", and "turn the other cheek" to a dude on a golden throne sending armies to slaughter people, it's a pretty versatile platform.
Strange idea... Indiasphere, India and its often odd religions? A mix of far right ideas with something like a Left Hand Path Tantrism?
you could have a culture that developed which makes a strong difference between "good" (acceptable) homosexuality and "bad" one.
For example, it might be considered acceptable for a lower echelon member to give felatio or be the receiver of intercrural sex from an higher ranking one as that would be a sign of bonding and patronage.
Anal sex on the other hand would be only acceptable for the "giver" by indicating how tough he is to be able to "dominate" another man (this one of course would have to be an underman of some sort).
For example, it might be considered acceptable for a lower echelon member to give felatio or be the receiver of intercrural sex from an higher ranking one as that would be a sign of bonding and patronage.
Anal sex on the other hand would be only acceptable for the "giver" by indicating how tough he is to be able to "dominate" another man (this one of course would have to be an underman of some sort).
Using Sparta and the Ancient world as an ideal will lead naturally to to a glorification of heterosexuality, which despite the odd mix of Medieval horror and modern progressive elution at the discovery of homosexuality in Hellenic culture which has made the Greeks famous for being 'gay', was the norm in Ancient times. Remember that Hitler already saw Sparta and the Greeks as an example in OTL.....
The Greeks believed if men and women abstained from sex with each other, they'd anger Aphrodite and go mad. The basic idea that women are 'unclean' and men should stick together simply doesn't wash with the Classical mindset.
Rex Mundi
Banned
I've read in a book on ancient sexual mores that in Greco-Roman society, being the receptive partner in oral sex was considered more degrading than being the receptive partner in anal sex. One's mouth was for speech, or the elucidation of one's thoughts, and thus more important than other parts of one's body (the term logos, for example, covered a range of concepts which we would variably translate as "word," "speech," "logic," etc., and stammerers were thought to be deficient in intelligence). The anus and defecation were not held in such high regard as the mouth and speech. Also, the ingesting of bodily fluids was considered highly unsanitary and a suspected cause of chronic halitosis.
Edit: I know you didn't specify Greco-Roman culture, just pointing out that a society need not share the same ideas on sex that we do (in contemporary America, oral sex would be thought of as less intimate or "easier to give away" than anal sex, but a culture that arises after such a distant POD need not think the same).