Garrison State?

What he's explicitly asking is if there's any pre-war PODs that would lead to the Soviet Union doing better...say, by making it so the Red Army handily crushes the Nazis in the opening battles of the war, then rapidly counterattacks. The loss of literally millions fewer soldiers at the beginning of the war would seem to go a long, long way towards making up whatever "soldier deficit" you imagine would exist compared to the Red Army needed to push farther West.

I saw a pretty interesting TL once where Poland does much better, messing up the Germans some.

Mmm, the might butterfly away Barbarossa though...
 
When I took a Russian History class in college,the professor said that if Stalin behaved after World War II,the US would. Have gone back to sleep. He then could have sent his army to march in and conquer Europe. The US then awakens from it's isolationism but does not turn Facist. I am of the opinion that a Facist United States of America is ASB.
 
In any event, a Soviet Empire that big probably isn't sustainable: too many discontented subjects, not enough soldiers, and the further west Soviet troops go the more discontent ("Hey! The capitalists have it a _lot_ better than we do!"). Independent Socialist/Communist regimes might last if put in place with Soviet help rather than imposed, but that's not going to happen with Stalin: he wasn't going to put up with any European Red regimes that weren't obedient puppets.

I would say we could probably have a _bigger_ Soviet empire in Europe, say one including Austria and almost all of Germany extending to the Rhine (what with Nazis and all, there would have been rather few complaints abroad about using extreme measures to keep the Germans in line - perhaps deport 20 million or so of them to the USSR to repair damages?), but a Soviet empire headed by Stalin that included France, Italy and the Low Countries as well? Simply not practically possible for more than a short period.

Bruce
 
In any event, a Soviet Empire that big probably isn't sustainable: too many discontented subjects, not enough soldiers, and the further west Soviet troops go the more discontent ("Hey! The capitalists have it a _lot_ better than we do!"). Independent Socialist/Communist regimes might last if put in place with Soviet help rather than imposed, but that's not going to happen with Stalin: he wasn't going to put up with any European Red regimes that weren't obedient puppets.

I would say we could probably have a _bigger_ Soviet empire in Europe, say one including Austria and almost all of Germany extending to the Rhine (what with Nazis and all, there would have been rather few complaints abroad about using extreme measures to keep the Germans in line - perhaps deport 20 million or so of them to the USSR to repair damages?), but a Soviet empire headed by Stalin that included France, Italy and the Low Countries as well? Simply not practically possible for more than a short period.

Bruce

Well, keep in mind some things for this scenario.

1. I must emphasize that the Soviets have to do MUCH better against the Nazis in this scenario. Chances are, that means no Stalin, or a Stalin who is much better in military matters.

2. Since the Soviets aren't overstretched, as they did much better against the Nazis... occupation of countries like France suddenly became a lot easier.

As for capitalists doing better... well, France did get invaded, among other things. It may be quite destroyed by the time the Soviets arrive.
 
Another Soviet-Wank? Could you do us a favor and stop posting so many threads! You've posted more threads here in 3 months than I have in 2 years, and I'm a pretty active member here. :mad:
 
When I took a Russian History class in college,the professor said that if Stalin behaved after World War II,the US would. Have gone back to sleep. He then could have sent his army to march in and conquer Europe. The US then awakens from it's isolationism but does not turn Facist. I am of the opinion that a Facist United States of America is ASB.

The Wilson administration got way too close. That could easily have happened in the Cold War and it could easily happen again, or worse.
 
Another Soviet-Wank? Could you do us a favor and stop posting so many threads! You've posted more threads here in 3 months than I have in 2 years, and I'm a pretty active member here. :mad:

I'm investigating the concept of a Garrison state. That's a little different.
 
I'm investigating the concept of a Garrison state. That's a little different.

now I'd say in OTL we were a Garrison state, not a Fascist one, but a overly armed nations that lives in fear of Communism, with huge bases all over the place (in and out of the US) spending billions on arms, to say nothing of the CIA
 
now I'd say in OTL we were a Garrison state, not a Fascist one, but a overly armed nations that lives in fear of Communism, with huge bases all over the place (in and out of the US) spending billions on arms, to say nothing of the CIA

Interesting point.
 
Another Soviet-Wank? Could you do us a favor and stop posting so many threads! You've posted more threads here in 3 months than I have in 2 years, and I'm a pretty active member here. :mad:


For what it's worth, if a thread isn't attractive to responding posters, it sinks out of sight. (I learned that by repeated experience.)

If you are that pained by the material, you have the option of opting for "ignore" on the specific poster.
 
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