Heh. With better union relations, he could be a democrat..... as in he might actually get support from unions, which would be far more use in the democratic party.
From The Streets of Detroit: America's Auto Powerhouse
- Thread starter TheMann
- Start date
Heh. With better union relations, he could be a democrat..... as in he might actually get support from unions, which would be far more use in the democratic party.
I'm debating that one. Airbus is gonna suck a lot of the European markets out of the aerospace world, and better rail transport in North America is gonna hurt like hell to low-cost haulers like Southwest. I'm not quite sure how to handle that one, though I think that Lockheed will need a new airplane to stay in the civilian market.
To keep Lockheed in the market butterfly the DC 10 away or delay it.
To keep Lockheed in the market butterfly the DC 10 away or delay it.
President Al Bundy
Banned
I have not much to say, except how I like this TL. Okay, I can mention that I find this alternate Mitt Romney a bit amusing. 
But for now, I've got some questions, if you don't mind:
1) With the Ford Taurus being released in Europe, will this butterfly away the butt-ugly Ford Scorpio?
2) What's the state of TTLs Opel? Does Rüsselsheim get proper treatment by Detroit? After seeing the success of the Chrysler-Peugeot and AMC-Renault cooperations, as well as the success of Ford Europe, Opel might become very vital for GM. Which leads me to my next question...
3) Are Opel models released in North America on a wide scale? I could see Buick becoming more or less the American brand of Opel, which might give GM an advantage over Mercedes, BMW and later Audi.
4) Will GM still try to launch a global marque, or are they content with their diversity?
5) While the French automotive industry might be much better off than IOTL, what will happen to the Italian automotive industry? Given FIAT's OTL troubles, I don't see much hope for them ITTL, unless someone buys them. I could see Mercedes doing that, because the DaimlerChrysler merger surely won't happen ITTL. VW is also a candidate, given that there were OTL rumours of VW having an interest in Ferrari, before they bought Lamborghini. Or some Japanese manufacturer might step in.
6) Could we see an AMC-Renault-Nissan alliance? If such a thing could happen, will we see other intercontinental alliances?
But for now, I've got some questions, if you don't mind:1) With the Ford Taurus being released in Europe, will this butterfly away the butt-ugly Ford Scorpio?
2) What's the state of TTLs Opel? Does Rüsselsheim get proper treatment by Detroit? After seeing the success of the Chrysler-Peugeot and AMC-Renault cooperations, as well as the success of Ford Europe, Opel might become very vital for GM. Which leads me to my next question...
3) Are Opel models released in North America on a wide scale? I could see Buick becoming more or less the American brand of Opel, which might give GM an advantage over Mercedes, BMW and later Audi.
4) Will GM still try to launch a global marque, or are they content with their diversity?
5) While the French automotive industry might be much better off than IOTL, what will happen to the Italian automotive industry? Given FIAT's OTL troubles, I don't see much hope for them ITTL, unless someone buys them. I could see Mercedes doing that, because the DaimlerChrysler merger surely won't happen ITTL. VW is also a candidate, given that there were OTL rumours of VW having an interest in Ferrari, before they bought Lamborghini. Or some Japanese manufacturer might step in.
6) Could we see an AMC-Renault-Nissan alliance? If such a thing could happen, will we see other intercontinental alliances?
Ummm... Not really. You have to have relatively short distances for high-speed rail to outperform airplanes. While Southwest might lose a few markets, there are enough long-distance for rail/short for plane routes that the Southwest model should do just fine.
Of course, that's not likely to help Lockheed or McDonnell-Douglas....
If you could manage to improve Boeing's relation with its workers, I'd love it. Bean counters ruin McD-D. Boeing buys the collapsed company. Then puts the guys that ran McD-D into the ground in charge of Boeing. WTF?!?!
But aside from the Omega, which will come to the US over the UAW's dead body, they are all front drive midget-sized family cars that are about as much luxury cars as the then contemporary Volkswagon Golf, Jetta/Bora, and Quantum/Passat. This is the same reason that there's no front drive car badged BMW, and it's impossible to get a 5 series from the dealer with cloth interior, steel wheels, and a four-cylinder diesel engine in the Western Hemisphere.
1. Love the Ford Sierra in regular production in America in the 1980s. Between it's double-wishbone front and rear suspension, choice of rear and AWD, and an engine bay big enough to stuff in a V8 (They did it in South Africa), it looks like it would become the Tri-Five Bel-Air, Pontiac Tempest, BMW 2002, Datsun 510, and AE86 of its era. I'm betting it becomes the basis for entire magazines devoted to modifying and hotrodding it and it serves as the basis for at least one generation of Mustang.
2. What's going to happen to the Orbital Two-Stroke?
3. Here's an idea for a future large Ford large world car platform:
Uses a transverse engine mount behind the front axle, using Bevel Gears a-la the 1992 Contour show car, so that it can be configured for front, rear, or all wheel drive without the weight distribution issues Audi's Quattro, the left/right hand drive adaptation issues of conventional transverse AWD, or the complexity and weight of center transfer case solutions used in most longitudinal AWD/4WD systems.
SWB:
Ford Taurus, Marcury Sable/Ocelot, Ford Falcon, Mazda 929, Ford Mustang, Marcury Cougar, Lincoln Continental/Zephyr, Jaguar XJ series Sedan and Coupe.
LWD:
Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Ford Fairlane/LTD, Ford Thunderbird, Mercury Montego/Cyclone, Lincoln Town Car, Daimler Double Six, Lagonda Vignale
2. What's going to happen to the Orbital Two-Stroke?
3. Here's an idea for a future large Ford large world car platform:
Uses a transverse engine mount behind the front axle, using Bevel Gears a-la the 1992 Contour show car, so that it can be configured for front, rear, or all wheel drive without the weight distribution issues Audi's Quattro, the left/right hand drive adaptation issues of conventional transverse AWD, or the complexity and weight of center transfer case solutions used in most longitudinal AWD/4WD systems.
SWB:
Ford Taurus, Marcury Sable/Ocelot, Ford Falcon, Mazda 929, Ford Mustang, Marcury Cougar, Lincoln Continental/Zephyr, Jaguar XJ series Sedan and Coupe.
LWD:
Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Ford Fairlane/LTD, Ford Thunderbird, Mercury Montego/Cyclone, Lincoln Town Car, Daimler Double Six, Lagonda Vignale
Actually, in this case the GOP isn't gonna go off into la-la land, so it will be possible for a Republican to get help from unions. They won't hate them as IOTL in this world, as they have too much influence to be ignored or double-dealed.
I was more thinking that the DC-10s early problems result in it losing lots of sales to Lockheed's L-1011, and Lockheeds development of it allows them to stay in the game. The MD-11 never flies, instead McDonnell Douglas digs deep builds the MD-12 instead, taking the title of the biggest passenger plane from both Boeing and Airbus. Lockheed eventually builds a good twin-jet to rival the Boeing 767 and Airbus A300 in the late 1980s.
Yes. The Taurus is in Europe instead of the Scorpio.
The first question is answered by GM paying much more attention to Opel and Vauxhall in its European markets, but nothing has come to America yet as GM hasn't needed it - the A-bodies in this world are much better done, and the J-bodies are bonafide hits right from the start. By this point, GM doesn't need Opel's products in America just yet. For the second point, however, the Opels are coming to North America. The Senator, Omega and Calibra will be sold in North America to replace the G-Body cars when they are retired in the late 1980s, wearing Buick and Oldsmobile badges. Buick versions of the Omega will have the Turbo V6 engines on some models, and the Judd-DeLorean V8 will get a few changes to become the Oldsmobile Aurora V8 for Oldsmobile models.
Content now, future might be different. Debating that.
Fiat is an enormous conglomorate, and Italy's government would never, EVER let them fall. I do think that Alfa Romeo will find another owner. Ferrari and Maserati are properties that somebody would pay handsomely for, too. You are correct that DaimlerChrysler won't happen here, but I don't see anybody willing to try and buy out Fiat, because of what a legal situation that could easily end up being. VW-Audi is gonna buy out one other struggling-badly-by-the-1980s automaker in the next chapter, so Fiat won't be in the cards. Lamborghini is gonna be bought by Chrysler as IOTL, but not gonna be sold off.
You will see AMC-Renault-Nissan, and it will have Carlos Ghosn involved of course, but it will also have plenty of other differences. As for other alliances, one already has Chrysler-Peugeot as well, and I'm debating whether to have Chrysler seek out a partner in Asia as well.
I agree on this one, and when combined with the fact that J-cars are sold in Europe, I don't see the small Opels ever having a foothold in America. The bigger ones, however, are a different story, particularly with the Taurus being reasonably successful in Europe and proving in America that sporty tuned sedans work nicely for greater markets.
The Mustang will never have the Sierra chassis - it's already on the Fox chassis and will be so for some time, not a real problem since the Fox can be adapted to independent rear suspension. The Sierra will be a popular car, and since Ford introduced the RS brand to North America with the Escort, you can bank on the Sierra RS Cosworth being a cult hero stateside as it was in Britain. I'm not sure it'll be as much of a cult care as the Chevy Tri-Five, but it'll certainly be well known on both sides of the pond.
Nothing, simply because two-stroke engines can't meet modern emissions laws and are noisy as well.
An interesting idea, but the T-Drive of the Contour had serious potential issues with durability, and you'd have to cast the engine block in two pieces, which complicates quality and durability problems.
Is Mitsubishi too obvious?
If Nissan is hooking up with amc and renault in a marriage of equals, and mazda hooks up with ford (or does it?), and toyota and honda refuse to be submerged in an american giant, that kind of only leaves mitsubishi, doesnt it? Assuming isuzu, suzuki and subaru are too small to be truely useful as partners?
The Mazda-Ford deal does happen, and I am not sure if Mitsubishi will be involved with Chrysler at all. (I'm tending against that, namely because that relationship didn't go well at times.) Subaru might be an option if Chrysler goes looking for a Pacific partner.
A question about GM- what's going on with Oldsmobile during the 80s, because unless I've missed something, it seems like they've missed out on all the new toys such as the A & J bodies, & will pretty much have the same Cutlass Supremes, Toronados, & 88/98s until they get their Opel derivatives around 1990 or so?
Though seeing that 2 of those models are RWD makes for some interesting possibilities- might we see something that's expressly designed to take BMW on at its own game, & the idea of a coupe version with that V-8 already makes me salivate- if it goes to Oldsmobile, that could be a worthy successor to the 4-4-2 nameplate.
Though seeing that 2 of those models are RWD makes for some interesting possibilities- might we see something that's expressly designed to take BMW on at its own game, & the idea of a coupe version with that V-8 already makes me salivate- if it goes to Oldsmobile, that could be a worthy successor to the 4-4-2 nameplate.
What does this bide for smaller autos makers like south koreans as Hyundai, Volvo of Sweden(?), etc, I wonder.
Olds never lost the Toronado, but they are widely seen as the strong mid-size car line. They have an A-Body, but they mostly stick to the bigger G-body versions until 1988ish - Oldsmobile at this time will quickly replace the A-body Cutlass Ciera with the Opel Omega-based Cutlass Supreme Sedan, the big G-body with their version of the Senator and the arrival of the futuristic Aurora. The Toronado is replaced for 1988 as well with a new car that is more like what the Toronado was originally supposed to be, a two-door four-seat GT with the Aurora engine and four-wheel-drive, a combination that makes for a very fast, very stable, very luxurious GT car. The B-body doesn't stay its blocky self until 1990, either - that whole range (along with the Chevrolet Caprice and Impala and the Buick Roadmaster) gets revamped for 1989.
Though seeing that 2 of those models are RWD makes for some interesting possibilities- might we see something that's expressly designed to take BMW on at its own game, & the idea of a coupe version with that V-8 already makes me salivate- if it goes to Oldsmobile, that could be a worthy successor to the 4-4-2 nameplate.
The lineup for Olds after the Custom Cruiser and Eighty-Eight go in the early 90s is gonna be Achieva-Cutlass-Senator-Aurora, with the Toronado as the range-topper which here will be similar (but by no means identical) to the Cadillac Eldorado. (The Buick Riviera here is Buick's version of the Calibra, though its only the four-wheel-drive version, with GM's incoming high-power V6.) Olds here never got its own J-car in the early 1980s but will get one in 1991ish, that being the Achieva. The Cutlass and Senator will have 4-4-2 versions, the Cutlass 4-4-2 version being effectively the Lotus Carlton, the insane M5-hunter with the twin-turbocharged V6, Corvette transmission and top speed of just shy of 180 mph.
eek By this point, by the end of the 1980s a guy looking for a really fast car from GM will have the Chevrolet Corvette and Camaro IROC-Z, Pontiac Fiero GT and Firebird Trans Am, Oldsmobile Cutlass 4-4-2 and Toronado and Buick Grand National to choose from, all capable of in excess of 150 mph and with 0-60 times well under six seconds. Hang on, boy....Depends on the maker. Hyundai is gonna have a tough time cracking the North American market, because the smaller cars made by Detroit are excellent and one can only get so far with very cheap cars. (No garbage like the Yugo here, either.) I am planning on VW-Audi, Honda-Acura, Nissan-Infiniti and Alfa Romeo doing about as well as OTL, the rest of the Japanese a little worse but still able to easily make money. Here, British Leyland is gonna survive as an independent firm and do better in America, which means Rover (and eventually MG) will be operating in North America as well. The Koreans will have a daunting hill to climb. Volvo and Saab will do well, too.
Wouldn't increased trouble with DC-10 make McDonnell Douglas in even worse condition in 1980s than OTL and thus unable to even start with TTL MD-12? Also, why would MDD start with MD-12 program instead of MD-11?
Er. Boeing 767 and Airbus A300 were meant for different markets, y'know. It was Airbus A310 that was a competitor to 767.
While we are on matter of twinjets, what about a twinjet derivative of DC-10 that was thought about in early 1970s? Wouldn't that airplane strengthen MDD position in late 1970s/1980s thus giving (hopefully) enough resorces to get MD-11 as it should be or even MD-12?
President Al Bundy
Banned
Maybe Nissan? Nissan and Alfa had a cooperation in the 80's, although the results were largely mediocre models, like the Alfa Romeo Arna. (Which in my opinion didn't look that bad)
Chrysler buying and keeping Lamborghini leads to another question:
IOTL, Lamborghini was very active in Formula One. Chrysler was very willing to push Lamborghini's F1 activities, but then they decided to sell Lambo. ITTL, could Chrysler's (probably) enhanced efforts lead to a greater American interest in Formula One? After all, Lotus was rumoured to run an Isuzu V12 engine (If GM owns Lotus and Isuzu ITTL, that is), while Ford was rumoured to have planned a Jaguar works teams, which would have run the Jag V12s. Or are GM and Ford America too busy with IndyCar and NASCAR?
Maybe Chrysler could seize the opportunity, and partner with an upcoming Chinese manufacturer, in order to gain a head start in China? Brilliance comes to mind.
1) I was thinking that GM might be the buyer for Alfa Romeo, as they did have extensive contacts with Fiat IOTL and with the connection with Saab though the Alfa 164 it would make lots of sense.
2) Americans never left major international motorsport in this world. I was gonna lay out everything that happened there in a separate section of this TL, but the long and short of it is that Ford of Europe funds its ass-kicking in Europe, and the Europeans never leave Indianapolis but instead see it as a new potential challenge. Result is that Lamborghini's F1 efforts are joined by a GT challenge using the Diablo and then a revolutionary LMP program starting in 1995. I'll have to make that clear in a new update. Lotus is owned by GM and will stay so, which will be beneficial to both parties, and Lotus' F1 and sportscar programs will remain very active for a good long time.
3) China is gonna be much slower growing in this world - I'm anticipating the rising power of the 1990s-2000s being India rather than China, along with several other potential middleweight powers (Brazil, Turkey, Korea, South Africa) being more influential in the time period. Result is that if anybody is headed to make partners to get a leg up, they'll be looking for Maruti or Tata rather than Brillance or Chery or SAIC.
Part 6 - Detroit Goes Aero, GM Starts Thinking Global, AMC Goes Rallying, Chrysler Returns to Europe in force and Detroit turns Formula One into a Battleground
As the 1980s progressed, it was clear that doldrums and labor problems of the 1970s were nothing but a bad memory in the minds of all. One example after another of high-quality, solidly-built, technologically-advanced American-built automobiles was showing up in showrooms, causing what seemed like a never-ending stream of people going to one dealership or another to see the latest example of engineering excellence, and in 1988, it was the turn of Oldsmobile and Buick to get this honor.
In 1987, Oldsmobile had brought the last year of its classic cars, namely its wood-sided Custom Cruiser station wagon, Cutlass Supreme large sedan, Cutlass Ciera A-body and Eighty-Eight and Ninety-Eight luxury sedans. For 1988, however, that turned almost entirely - the new Achieva was Oldsmobile's version of the new W-body chassis, the new Cutlass was based on the Opel Omega luxury sedan, the Opel Senator replaced the Eighty-Eight and Ninety-Eight, the Vista Cruiser station wagon was re-designed like its Buick Roadmaster and Chevrolet Caprice siblings and the futuristic Aurora made its debut. Combined with the Toronado's re-engineering with the same engine as the Aurora and a highly-advanced four-wheel-drive system, the result was that Oldsmobile had gone from a steady seller to a market-stunner overnight. It had needed to be that way - Oldsmobile's sales had been sinking for most of the 1980s - but the extent to which the company jumped was one for the ages. Nobody in Detroit had ever figured a company would replace its entire lineup in one year.
On top of the list was the Aurora. A sci-fi design of the highest order, and with its new Oldsmobile Aurora V8 relegating the Rocket engine to the Vista Cruiser alone, the Aurora was unlike anything Detroit had ever produced, with an avant-garde interior and four-seat design that was just as ambitious as what Ford had done two years before, the Aurora took the automotive world completely by surprise. The best part of it all was the Aurora, meant to be a sport sedan, delivered the goods in a big way, with its 4.6-liter V8 engine delivering 335 horsepower and propelling the aluminum-bodied Aurora from zero to sixty in 6.1 seconds and on to a top speed of 165 mph. The Aurora V8 was in itself a Detroit departure - the basic design had been bought from John Judd and John DeLorean, and had been used for years in the DeLorean DMC-12. GM's buying of the engine design provided the money for DeLorean's new sportscar, the Infernus, which entered production at Lordstown in 1989 and at Dunmurry in 1991. It also provided the money for Judd to achieve his dream and build his own for-real Formula One engine. In any case, it would prove to be a good buy. The new Oldsmobile Cutlass and Senator were great arrivals as well, the Cutlass particularly so since its top model right from the start was the Cutlass 4-4-2, which was known in Europe as the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. The fastest four-door GM had ever built, the Cutlass 4-4-2 packed a twin-turbocharged version of GM's high-output 3.5-liter V6 engine, providing an incredible 410 horsepower, and making the Cutlass able to go from 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and race to a top speed of 180 mph. The Cutlass 4-4-2 was so mad that GM insisted on all new owners going to a driver training event, where prospective 4-4-2 owners learned how to drive their cars at the limit, all having a blast doing it.
Buick was also in the process of replacing its cars, also retiring the tough-but-aged G-body and the unloved A-body cars, its version of the new W-body being the new Buick Century, while the Senator was also used as the Park Avenue and the huge Roadmaster got the same restyle as most of the others. Buick also got its own car all to its own, that being the new Regal, which sat between the Century and Park Avenue and was designed to be a middle-sized sport sedan for the future - and true to form, the Regal had been designed to allow Buick's Turbo V6 and Family IV engines to be used in the Regal as well as the others, and demand for the Grand National was such that the last G-bodies built in 1988 and 1989 were all Grand Nationals, over 9000 of them in total - and for 1990, the new Buick Grand National was a Regal-based car that was every bit the scary-fast machine the old one had been, though with a rather different character.
A 1988 Oldsmobile Aurora
"Just when you figured GM didn't have the balls to build something like this, out comes the Aurora, and this thing clearly is no knee-jerk response to the Ford Taurus. This thing is meant to bust luxury sedan builders in the chops. One could say that this takes the wind out of Cadillac somewhat, but any way you look at it, this car is a triumph for GM. Uncharacteristically brave, sure. But its an Oldsmobile, you can buy it at your dealer, and its brilliant."
-- Popular Mechanic writing its review on the Oldsmobile Aurora, November 1987
A 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass 4-4-2, with the "Tuned by Lotus" badge clearly visible
"The Cutlass 4-4-2 is nothing short of a mad, untamed, full-fat, maximum strength monster of a car, a thrill ride as fast as the Corvette but with the ability to take three disbelieving buddies along for the ride. One just hopes they merely leave the skid marks in their underpants instead of in your car. This thing is nuts, and you can tell that the car guys at GM must have punched out a bunch of the bean counters and lawyers to make sure this car saw the road. To those guys, we salute you and hope your bruises heal quickly."
-- Car and Driver, writing about the Cutlass 4-4-2, June 1988
As GM was working on revamping its many model lines, AMC was jumping again on how it was different than others. The Spirit's first revamp in 1988 saw it grow somewhat, in keeping with the growth of the J-cars and the rival Ford Sierra, but the surprise was that AMC introduced a new small car underneath, reintroducing the Gremlin name - but this little small car entered 1988 with AMC having a goal in mind with it, that being an entry into the 1988 World Rally Championship.
At the end of 1987, rallying had changed forever. The banning of the outrageous (and incredibly-dangerous) Group B rally cars in 1986 had led to a year where the Group S cars, Group B-style cars with much less power, had reigned supreme. But even that had been judged too dangerous, leaving the Group A cars to be the top dogs after the 1988 season. With that, several automakers planned full-on assaults on the WRC for 1989, with AMC joined by Ford, Lancia, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Audi and Subaru. It was expected to be mad, and it was - though the Gremlin XR, as the rally car would come to be known, was a fast car right from the off, winning the third round of the WRC in Canada in 1989 and scoring two more wins that year. AMC's choice of going rallying was an odd one, but it rather made sense when Renault tuned up at the 1989 Indy 500, with people in the racing world guessing that it meant the two companies were playing on the other's turf and looking to score big doing it. AMC's new 1980s cars in the Rambler mid-size sedan and the new-for-1988 Ambassador full-size car were sales successes, but not enough to keep Chrysler from kicking AMC back to fourth place in 1986. In 1980s America, and with AMC being successful in other markets, fourth place was plenty enough to keep the Kenosha, Wisconsin-based automaker quite happily afloat and functioning.
Chrysler's return to Europe had been gradual, but after Peugeot's 604 executive car went out of production in 1986, Chrysler's friend in Europe saw an opportunity to jump into the game in Europe. One big problem faced Chrysler at that point, however - their upcoming cars in development for the North American market were seen by them as too similar to Peugeot's incoming 405 and 605 models. This led to Chrysler focusing its development work for Europe on better versions of the LH platform cars. Learning from Ford's experience with the Taurus and its sales doing well in Europe, Chrysler's efforts were tuned towards making the incoming cars competent sport sedans, designing the Dodge Intrepid/Chrysler 300M twins to be very good sports sedans, powered by Chrysler's new-for-1990 3.6-liter "Pentastar" V6 engines and convincing Peugeot to sell the cars through European dealerships until Chrysler Europe got fully re-established. This happened, and the LH-platform cars introduced in 1990 to considerable fanfare, being the best-selling mid-sized sedans of 1990 in America and doing well in Europe as well. The LH platform was a Chrysler-only, but for Peugeot's new 406 sedan for 1994 and Chrysler's new Sebring and Avenger for that same year, the cars would share chassis and diesel engines for the first time.
A 1991 Chrysler 300M
A 1994 Peugeot 406 Coupe
"The 300M is where Chrysler decides its new identity. It seems like Chrysler wants to be seen as a luxury car, and the 300M does an excellent job at it. Cars like this and the Oldsmobile Aurora are great rivals to cars like the Infiniti Q45, BMW 5-series and Jaguar XJ, luxury sedans that can pick up their heels and race like thoroughbreds. The 300M may not be as good at it as the Aurora, but a Jag or 5-series driver will still drive the 300M and feel not only right at home, but feel like Chrysler designed the car with them in mind because, honestly, they did."
-- Autocar Magazine, June 1991
"By the late 1980s, every bad habit Detroit had grown over the years was either gone or on its way out. The engineers and the designers had made an alliance, brought the marketers on board later on to help them and told the lawyers and bean counters to go to hell. The result was that the cars coming out were so damn good that everybody everywhere was paying attention to Detroit. The marketers by the end of the 1980s were jumping into the alliance with both feet, and the accountants and lawyers by this point were just staying the heck out of the way, letting the creators go to work and only adjusting to keep the cars for sale and able to be profitable. It was making tons of money, and they were proud of their cars, too."
-- Brock Yates, American Iron and Carbon
Perhaps the greatest for race fans aspects of the 1980s was the fact that America stayed very much in the world of international motorsports, and their interest actually grew. The fact that the United States had three straight Formula One world drivers' champions at the end of the 1970s - AJ Foyt in 1977, Mario Andretti in 1978 (both Lotus) and Mark Donohue in 1979 (Williams) and the fact that all three Champs drove cars powered by Ford-Cosworth DFV engines added to the point. When combined with a 1980 Le Mans win for Jean Rondeau's own race car, with its own DFV engine, made it better still. The Foyt-Andretti F1 team was a pairing which captured a good many imaginations, not the least of which because the battle-scarred Italian-born Andretti and the loud, showy Texan Foyt had been arch-rivals in 1960s and 1970s Indycar racing and the two guys initially loathed one another, though both grew an immense respect for the other's abilities, while still loudly saying how they wanted to beat the hell out of each other on the track. Donohue, who became one of the oldest F1 champions at age 42 by first topping teammate Alan Jones and then beating the Ferraris of South African Tomas Schekter and lead-footed French-Canadian Gilles Villeneuve. Donohue's win was Williams' first Formula One champ, and the win was sufficient to get General Motors on board, who sponsored Williams in 1980 and brought out a Formula One engine for 1981. GM's entry into Formula One was its first turbocharged race engine, with its Q4F1 Turbo engine producing amazing power from the start and only getting crazier through the 1980s.
GM's entry into F1 in 1981 got attention all across Detroit. Chrysler and AMC had no interest (and not the funds needed to really jump in in 1981-82), but with GM entering F1, Ford couldn't not respond, and with the turbocharged cars taking over in Formula One, Ford's first turbo F1 engine, with the Ford-Cosworth TEC II. That year, a Formula One Grand Prix landed in Detroit. Out to make a point about the possibilities of a race in Detroit, GM and Ford both hammered on the plans for the race, making the F1 track in Detroit a track that got attention - and they did that through the track being a 3.15-mile, 24-corner circuit through downtown Detroit, looping around the then-new Compuware building. The Detroit track gave spectators and TV viewers the image of Formula One cars racing up Woodward Avenue past the Michigan Soldiers and Sailors Memorial and around the Compuware building before returning back down the other side of Woodward, with a mixture of office buildings and apartment towers on either side, and the circuit's roads were totally resurfaced and repaved for the event. The first winner of the Detroit Grand Prix was, fittingly enough, Mario Andretti, driving for Ferrari after regular driver Michele Alboreto had been injured in a practice accident. F1 racers and fans alike said that Detroit had been a better track than had been expected, and it also showed in fan interest. The Detroit race, however, just one example of how Detroit got into global racing in a big way in the 1980s.
For decades, American racing had existed in what seemed like a separate world from the racing in Europe and Asia, but the 1960s had changed that forever, and the fact that Americans stayed in the hunt in the 1970s meant that when the affluent eighties came around, BMW, Renault, TAG-Porsche and Honda found themselves also faced with Buick (GM was trying to establish its Buick brand worldwide through an F1 effort) and Ford-Cosworth. The tagline "wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?" became something actually heard in F1 by the middle of the 1980s, as while the TAG-Porsche and Honda engines were the class of the field in 1986-87, the Buick Q4F1V was by 1986 as powerful as the TAG-Porsche units, and when Lotus began using Buick power for 1987, the stage was set for a showdown of spectacular proportions against the Tyrrell team, with their Ford engines, and the Williams team and its Honda power.
1987 F1 cars were the zenith of power in recent times, with the Buick, Ford, Honda and Renault motors on maximum boost were producing in excess of 1500 horsepower, such a level that even highly-experienced drivers had difficulty controlling it at times. The introduction of a naturally-aspirated class meant that Ford had the ability to contest the Colin Chapman trophy as well, but everybody wanted the big prize - and in 1987, after a battle that lasted right up to the final round of 1987, where despite victory for the Ferrari of Stefan Bellof, second and third fell to the Lotus-Buicks of Aryton Senna and Rick Mears, giving Senna the world championship and GM's first Formula One title. 1988 would see GM off the pace as they developed a naturally-aspirated engine for the future and Senna's departure to McLaren, allowing the McLaren-Hondas of Senna and rival Alain Prost to finish a dominant 1-2 in the standings, but GM was back in 1989 with a mission. 1988 also Lamborghini, now owned by Chrysler, show up in F1 again, resulting in all of Detroit now paying attention to Formula One Racing.
As the 1980s progressed, it was clear that doldrums and labor problems of the 1970s were nothing but a bad memory in the minds of all. One example after another of high-quality, solidly-built, technologically-advanced American-built automobiles was showing up in showrooms, causing what seemed like a never-ending stream of people going to one dealership or another to see the latest example of engineering excellence, and in 1988, it was the turn of Oldsmobile and Buick to get this honor.
In 1987, Oldsmobile had brought the last year of its classic cars, namely its wood-sided Custom Cruiser station wagon, Cutlass Supreme large sedan, Cutlass Ciera A-body and Eighty-Eight and Ninety-Eight luxury sedans. For 1988, however, that turned almost entirely - the new Achieva was Oldsmobile's version of the new W-body chassis, the new Cutlass was based on the Opel Omega luxury sedan, the Opel Senator replaced the Eighty-Eight and Ninety-Eight, the Vista Cruiser station wagon was re-designed like its Buick Roadmaster and Chevrolet Caprice siblings and the futuristic Aurora made its debut. Combined with the Toronado's re-engineering with the same engine as the Aurora and a highly-advanced four-wheel-drive system, the result was that Oldsmobile had gone from a steady seller to a market-stunner overnight. It had needed to be that way - Oldsmobile's sales had been sinking for most of the 1980s - but the extent to which the company jumped was one for the ages. Nobody in Detroit had ever figured a company would replace its entire lineup in one year.
On top of the list was the Aurora. A sci-fi design of the highest order, and with its new Oldsmobile Aurora V8 relegating the Rocket engine to the Vista Cruiser alone, the Aurora was unlike anything Detroit had ever produced, with an avant-garde interior and four-seat design that was just as ambitious as what Ford had done two years before, the Aurora took the automotive world completely by surprise. The best part of it all was the Aurora, meant to be a sport sedan, delivered the goods in a big way, with its 4.6-liter V8 engine delivering 335 horsepower and propelling the aluminum-bodied Aurora from zero to sixty in 6.1 seconds and on to a top speed of 165 mph. The Aurora V8 was in itself a Detroit departure - the basic design had been bought from John Judd and John DeLorean, and had been used for years in the DeLorean DMC-12. GM's buying of the engine design provided the money for DeLorean's new sportscar, the Infernus, which entered production at Lordstown in 1989 and at Dunmurry in 1991. It also provided the money for Judd to achieve his dream and build his own for-real Formula One engine. In any case, it would prove to be a good buy. The new Oldsmobile Cutlass and Senator were great arrivals as well, the Cutlass particularly so since its top model right from the start was the Cutlass 4-4-2, which was known in Europe as the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. The fastest four-door GM had ever built, the Cutlass 4-4-2 packed a twin-turbocharged version of GM's high-output 3.5-liter V6 engine, providing an incredible 410 horsepower, and making the Cutlass able to go from 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and race to a top speed of 180 mph. The Cutlass 4-4-2 was so mad that GM insisted on all new owners going to a driver training event, where prospective 4-4-2 owners learned how to drive their cars at the limit, all having a blast doing it.
Buick was also in the process of replacing its cars, also retiring the tough-but-aged G-body and the unloved A-body cars, its version of the new W-body being the new Buick Century, while the Senator was also used as the Park Avenue and the huge Roadmaster got the same restyle as most of the others. Buick also got its own car all to its own, that being the new Regal, which sat between the Century and Park Avenue and was designed to be a middle-sized sport sedan for the future - and true to form, the Regal had been designed to allow Buick's Turbo V6 and Family IV engines to be used in the Regal as well as the others, and demand for the Grand National was such that the last G-bodies built in 1988 and 1989 were all Grand Nationals, over 9000 of them in total - and for 1990, the new Buick Grand National was a Regal-based car that was every bit the scary-fast machine the old one had been, though with a rather different character.
A 1988 Oldsmobile Aurora
"Just when you figured GM didn't have the balls to build something like this, out comes the Aurora, and this thing clearly is no knee-jerk response to the Ford Taurus. This thing is meant to bust luxury sedan builders in the chops. One could say that this takes the wind out of Cadillac somewhat, but any way you look at it, this car is a triumph for GM. Uncharacteristically brave, sure. But its an Oldsmobile, you can buy it at your dealer, and its brilliant."
-- Popular Mechanic writing its review on the Oldsmobile Aurora, November 1987
A 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass 4-4-2, with the "Tuned by Lotus" badge clearly visible
"The Cutlass 4-4-2 is nothing short of a mad, untamed, full-fat, maximum strength monster of a car, a thrill ride as fast as the Corvette but with the ability to take three disbelieving buddies along for the ride. One just hopes they merely leave the skid marks in their underpants instead of in your car. This thing is nuts, and you can tell that the car guys at GM must have punched out a bunch of the bean counters and lawyers to make sure this car saw the road. To those guys, we salute you and hope your bruises heal quickly."
-- Car and Driver, writing about the Cutlass 4-4-2, June 1988
As GM was working on revamping its many model lines, AMC was jumping again on how it was different than others. The Spirit's first revamp in 1988 saw it grow somewhat, in keeping with the growth of the J-cars and the rival Ford Sierra, but the surprise was that AMC introduced a new small car underneath, reintroducing the Gremlin name - but this little small car entered 1988 with AMC having a goal in mind with it, that being an entry into the 1988 World Rally Championship.
At the end of 1987, rallying had changed forever. The banning of the outrageous (and incredibly-dangerous) Group B rally cars in 1986 had led to a year where the Group S cars, Group B-style cars with much less power, had reigned supreme. But even that had been judged too dangerous, leaving the Group A cars to be the top dogs after the 1988 season. With that, several automakers planned full-on assaults on the WRC for 1989, with AMC joined by Ford, Lancia, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Audi and Subaru. It was expected to be mad, and it was - though the Gremlin XR, as the rally car would come to be known, was a fast car right from the off, winning the third round of the WRC in Canada in 1989 and scoring two more wins that year. AMC's choice of going rallying was an odd one, but it rather made sense when Renault tuned up at the 1989 Indy 500, with people in the racing world guessing that it meant the two companies were playing on the other's turf and looking to score big doing it. AMC's new 1980s cars in the Rambler mid-size sedan and the new-for-1988 Ambassador full-size car were sales successes, but not enough to keep Chrysler from kicking AMC back to fourth place in 1986. In 1980s America, and with AMC being successful in other markets, fourth place was plenty enough to keep the Kenosha, Wisconsin-based automaker quite happily afloat and functioning.
Chrysler's return to Europe had been gradual, but after Peugeot's 604 executive car went out of production in 1986, Chrysler's friend in Europe saw an opportunity to jump into the game in Europe. One big problem faced Chrysler at that point, however - their upcoming cars in development for the North American market were seen by them as too similar to Peugeot's incoming 405 and 605 models. This led to Chrysler focusing its development work for Europe on better versions of the LH platform cars. Learning from Ford's experience with the Taurus and its sales doing well in Europe, Chrysler's efforts were tuned towards making the incoming cars competent sport sedans, designing the Dodge Intrepid/Chrysler 300M twins to be very good sports sedans, powered by Chrysler's new-for-1990 3.6-liter "Pentastar" V6 engines and convincing Peugeot to sell the cars through European dealerships until Chrysler Europe got fully re-established. This happened, and the LH-platform cars introduced in 1990 to considerable fanfare, being the best-selling mid-sized sedans of 1990 in America and doing well in Europe as well. The LH platform was a Chrysler-only, but for Peugeot's new 406 sedan for 1994 and Chrysler's new Sebring and Avenger for that same year, the cars would share chassis and diesel engines for the first time.
A 1991 Chrysler 300M
A 1994 Peugeot 406 Coupe
"The 300M is where Chrysler decides its new identity. It seems like Chrysler wants to be seen as a luxury car, and the 300M does an excellent job at it. Cars like this and the Oldsmobile Aurora are great rivals to cars like the Infiniti Q45, BMW 5-series and Jaguar XJ, luxury sedans that can pick up their heels and race like thoroughbreds. The 300M may not be as good at it as the Aurora, but a Jag or 5-series driver will still drive the 300M and feel not only right at home, but feel like Chrysler designed the car with them in mind because, honestly, they did."
-- Autocar Magazine, June 1991
"By the late 1980s, every bad habit Detroit had grown over the years was either gone or on its way out. The engineers and the designers had made an alliance, brought the marketers on board later on to help them and told the lawyers and bean counters to go to hell. The result was that the cars coming out were so damn good that everybody everywhere was paying attention to Detroit. The marketers by the end of the 1980s were jumping into the alliance with both feet, and the accountants and lawyers by this point were just staying the heck out of the way, letting the creators go to work and only adjusting to keep the cars for sale and able to be profitable. It was making tons of money, and they were proud of their cars, too."
-- Brock Yates, American Iron and Carbon
Perhaps the greatest for race fans aspects of the 1980s was the fact that America stayed very much in the world of international motorsports, and their interest actually grew. The fact that the United States had three straight Formula One world drivers' champions at the end of the 1970s - AJ Foyt in 1977, Mario Andretti in 1978 (both Lotus) and Mark Donohue in 1979 (Williams) and the fact that all three Champs drove cars powered by Ford-Cosworth DFV engines added to the point. When combined with a 1980 Le Mans win for Jean Rondeau's own race car, with its own DFV engine, made it better still. The Foyt-Andretti F1 team was a pairing which captured a good many imaginations, not the least of which because the battle-scarred Italian-born Andretti and the loud, showy Texan Foyt had been arch-rivals in 1960s and 1970s Indycar racing and the two guys initially loathed one another, though both grew an immense respect for the other's abilities, while still loudly saying how they wanted to beat the hell out of each other on the track. Donohue, who became one of the oldest F1 champions at age 42 by first topping teammate Alan Jones and then beating the Ferraris of South African Tomas Schekter and lead-footed French-Canadian Gilles Villeneuve. Donohue's win was Williams' first Formula One champ, and the win was sufficient to get General Motors on board, who sponsored Williams in 1980 and brought out a Formula One engine for 1981. GM's entry into Formula One was its first turbocharged race engine, with its Q4F1 Turbo engine producing amazing power from the start and only getting crazier through the 1980s.
GM's entry into F1 in 1981 got attention all across Detroit. Chrysler and AMC had no interest (and not the funds needed to really jump in in 1981-82), but with GM entering F1, Ford couldn't not respond, and with the turbocharged cars taking over in Formula One, Ford's first turbo F1 engine, with the Ford-Cosworth TEC II. That year, a Formula One Grand Prix landed in Detroit. Out to make a point about the possibilities of a race in Detroit, GM and Ford both hammered on the plans for the race, making the F1 track in Detroit a track that got attention - and they did that through the track being a 3.15-mile, 24-corner circuit through downtown Detroit, looping around the then-new Compuware building. The Detroit track gave spectators and TV viewers the image of Formula One cars racing up Woodward Avenue past the Michigan Soldiers and Sailors Memorial and around the Compuware building before returning back down the other side of Woodward, with a mixture of office buildings and apartment towers on either side, and the circuit's roads were totally resurfaced and repaved for the event. The first winner of the Detroit Grand Prix was, fittingly enough, Mario Andretti, driving for Ferrari after regular driver Michele Alboreto had been injured in a practice accident. F1 racers and fans alike said that Detroit had been a better track than had been expected, and it also showed in fan interest. The Detroit race, however, just one example of how Detroit got into global racing in a big way in the 1980s.
For decades, American racing had existed in what seemed like a separate world from the racing in Europe and Asia, but the 1960s had changed that forever, and the fact that Americans stayed in the hunt in the 1970s meant that when the affluent eighties came around, BMW, Renault, TAG-Porsche and Honda found themselves also faced with Buick (GM was trying to establish its Buick brand worldwide through an F1 effort) and Ford-Cosworth. The tagline "wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?" became something actually heard in F1 by the middle of the 1980s, as while the TAG-Porsche and Honda engines were the class of the field in 1986-87, the Buick Q4F1V was by 1986 as powerful as the TAG-Porsche units, and when Lotus began using Buick power for 1987, the stage was set for a showdown of spectacular proportions against the Tyrrell team, with their Ford engines, and the Williams team and its Honda power.
1987 F1 cars were the zenith of power in recent times, with the Buick, Ford, Honda and Renault motors on maximum boost were producing in excess of 1500 horsepower, such a level that even highly-experienced drivers had difficulty controlling it at times. The introduction of a naturally-aspirated class meant that Ford had the ability to contest the Colin Chapman trophy as well, but everybody wanted the big prize - and in 1987, after a battle that lasted right up to the final round of 1987, where despite victory for the Ferrari of Stefan Bellof, second and third fell to the Lotus-Buicks of Aryton Senna and Rick Mears, giving Senna the world championship and GM's first Formula One title. 1988 would see GM off the pace as they developed a naturally-aspirated engine for the future and Senna's departure to McLaren, allowing the McLaren-Hondas of Senna and rival Alain Prost to finish a dominant 1-2 in the standings, but GM was back in 1989 with a mission. 1988 also Lamborghini, now owned by Chrysler, show up in F1 again, resulting in all of Detroit now paying attention to Formula One Racing.
Last edited:
If Mann decides to have Formula One change the engine formulae as IOTL, you could see the Aurora Indy V8 in a Lotus chassis. Ford could counter with a naturally-aspirated Cosworth V8 (the Champ Car engines were twin-turbo).
Alfa Romeo 159 LTZ?
Alfa could develop the V-10 for Lotus. Ford would have to lean on Cosworth if/when the engine rules change for V-10s.