From National Socialism to International Socialism

How do we get the Nazis of WWII to go from National Socialists to International Socialists downplaying the Nationalist element of National Socialism?

WHat effects does a more internationalist Nazi party have on WWII up through today?
 
That'd be a turn of 180 degrees. One could argue that the nazis were a bit international, since they considered Scandinavians and Dutch as equals - but even that is doubtful, those countries weren't exactly well off under German occupation. But inherently, the nazis were racists, and you can't come suddenly and declare that all humans of all races are equally good.
 
how about the japanese are the best asians, the hindis are the best indians, zulus are the best bantu, etc
 
The problem with that is the socialism part of National Socialism was always more of a tacked-on opportunistic thing to attract working class voters.

Once in power, very little in the way of actual socialism was introduced.
 
theres no question they would still be facists and racists, but how would we get them to be more internationlist and bring in more in the way of socialism.
 
There was plenty of socialism in the Nazi government, its just that the socialism worked for 'Pure blood' Germans, as opposed to other groups.

The guiding principle of the Nazi state was a form of corporatism which contained elements of socialist policy. However the ideology on which the running of the economy was based was a long way from socialism.
 
The guiding principle of the Nazi state was a form of corporatism which contained elements of socialist policy. However the ideology on which the running of the economy was based was a long way from socialism.

Not really. The guiding principle of National Socialism is racism and the building of the volkisch community. In terms of economics the main concern was to find a way to manufacture lots of weapons, for which the large corporations were harnessed. Ideologically Nazism favoured the small shopkeeper, although it did not really in practice.

In terms of workers rights' you could not call Nazism socialistic, but then you could hardly say that Soviet socialism was good for workers' rights either. Workers did get some material benefits from the regime, but to talk of socialism for Aryans would be wrong - overall consumption as a share of GDP was down and income shifted from labour to capital.

Regarding Nazi racial theory it was immensely complex, and at the same time improvised rubbish. It was believed that only the Germans were capable of producing culture. Thus it would be a disaster for humanity if Germany were destroyed. To prevent this happening Germany needed to be both racially pure and to control a vast empire so that the race had the resources to ensure its survival.

The capacity of other races to produce culture was believed to be varied, but limited - for example, the Japanese were believed by Hitler to be capable of sustaining and replicating culture but not of actually creating it.

In a sense Nazism could be thought to be international, in that the survival and prosperity of the German race was thought to be the best thing for human civilization. By definition however such an approach makes other races disposable according to circumstance.

It is worth noting that by 44-45 the propaganda of Nazism was highly international, about protecting Europe from barbarous Slavs and communists, whilst that of the USSR was highly nationalistic and patriotic.
 
"It was believed that only the Germans were capable of producing culture."

Which led to claims that the achievements of frex the Russians were only possible because of the small percentage of Viking- and German-descent people in its upper class. Some nazis also claimed that the Dorians in Greece were really of Germanic stock, thus the Greek civilisation became possible at all.
 
Even if their 'left' wing like the Strassers had taken control they'd have still been fascists and racists.
From what I've read, the Strassers were into this ideology known as "National Bolshevism" that basically wanted to introduce a lot of socialist elements into German life, but that this would be done by a new German elite rather than the proletariat. IIRC, the Strassers (and Goebbels too) were also quite interested in pursing an alliance with the USSR against the Western powers. The idea certainly has potential for creating a Nazism that's more in line with the nastier parts of the international socialist movement.
 
Weren't there Indian and Bosnian Muslim Divisions in the Wehrmacht? Also the American neo nazi leader Lincoln Rockwell praised the Nation of Islam's leader Elijah Mohammed and was guest speaker at an NOI rally.
 
Nazis were desperate to win and had to accept non-Aryans to help bring down Stalin. (Didn't work too.) Besides, the Indian troops on Germany's side had negligible impact.

So, you suggest that these nazis want that every race/nation/whatever will live in their own country, without any influences crossing state borders?
 
well let me pose this,

Could national socialism be a legitimate politic if you eliminated the racism and hate and put more emphasis on the socialism. Maybe a more liberal form of National Socialism?
 
Nazis were desperate to win and had to accept non-Aryans to help bring down Stalin.

Actually how were the Indians viewed in Nazi ideology? Since there was an SS battalion of Indian POWs I assumed that they were considered Aryans, but I hadn't realised there was a Bosnian SS unit too.
 
Well, everyone knows that the Aryans invaded and subjugated India some millennia ago, so at least the fair-skinned Indians were considered Aryans by the nazis. Dravidians would be out, of course. Some of the nazi esoterics were also a bit into Hinduism.
 
The guiding principle of the Nazi state was a form of corporatism which contained elements of socialist policy. However the ideology on which the running of the economy was based was a long way from socialism.

A long way from Marxism, perhaps, but Marxism does not equal Socialism. Rather, Marxism is a form of Socialism.
 
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