Is the new emperor married?If not,I think marrying Theodoric’s daughter Amalasuntha would be appropriate.It will give him ties with the various barbarian tribes,and possibly give him a chance to integrate the Ostrogoths peacefully.
From Exile to Triumph: a Western Roman Timeline
- Thread starter Flavius Iulius Nepos
- Start date
A betrothal had been arranged between Iulius Marcianus and Anicia Eudoxia ( Anicia Iuliana’s fictional daughter) in the chapter XVII. A more detailed summary of the events involving the imperial family, between the celebration for the ventennalia and Nepos’ death, will probably be the focus of the next update. Regarding the fate of this Alt-Amalasuntha and Amalaric I will give more informations in future updates (likewise I will try to give informations about other minor characters or their descendants who had appeared in this timeline so far).
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I have some difficulty visualizing the territorial changes, did Marcianus occupied Narbonensis II and bits of Narbonensis I or all of it?
The coastal part of Narbonensis II and Viennensis up to the Durance river and the city of Arausius. Later he occupied almost the entire province of Narbonensis I ( with the city of Tolosa marking the border with the Franks).
Thanks, I imagine the WRE controls only the coastal part of Alpes Maritime?
Almost the entire province (including the city of Ebrodunum) as his army departed from Segusio and crossed the inner part of the region. Nothing else was conquered from the Visigoths and the Burgundians so far.
Just replaced, as military offices are not permanent. Currently he is with his sister and his other nephew in the territory of the eastern Roman Empire.
I confused Anthemiolus with Anthemius Junior.Yeah,that guy was definitely dead.
Marcianus's realm is starting well - on a matter of legitimacy, the Senate acknowledged his rule in absentia?
Is reassuring to read he went soft with Tolosa; whenever because he wanted to preserve Gaul's richest city, or saw it as a Roman city, or else, it would be seen as another step towards the return of civilization in the West.
Besides the capture of the Visigoth treasure is for sure Marcianus's first jackpot. A great propaganda boon because he can easily say "I avenged 410" and this for the Rome of the time would mean much. Triumph and celebrations are certain in the next update.
About Amalasuntha: she would even exist TTL? Cause I don't see how Theodoric would dare to ask Clovis the hand of his sister, him being a foederatus of the Empire in a moment when Nepos and Clovis were at odds. The marriage pact would have raised more than a suspicion in Rome and Nepos would have rights to oppose it.
Hence, who could have married Theodoricus TTL?
Is reassuring to read he went soft with Tolosa; whenever because he wanted to preserve Gaul's richest city, or saw it as a Roman city, or else, it would be seen as another step towards the return of civilization in the West.
Besides the capture of the Visigoth treasure is for sure Marcianus's first jackpot. A great propaganda boon because he can easily say "I avenged 410" and this for the Rome of the time would mean much. Triumph and celebrations are certain in the next update.
About Amalasuntha: she would even exist TTL? Cause I don't see how Theodoric would dare to ask Clovis the hand of his sister, him being a foederatus of the Empire in a moment when Nepos and Clovis were at odds. The marriage pact would have raised more than a suspicion in Rome and Nepos would have rights to oppose it.
Hence, who could have married Theodoricus TTL?
The opinion of the senate is tertiary to that of the army,and the army just proclaimed him emperor.And second to the opinion of the army is actually the opinion of the senior emperor(aka the guy in Constantinople).
You are right on this one.It's less a matter of whether Theodoric would ask Clovis his sister as opposed to whether their interest would even align. Their realms are separated by the WRE.There's no way they are going to have a marital alliance unless they are planning to attack the WRE.
Fine but until a certain point. Marcianus was the acknowledged heir to the throne and would become Emperor, first of a peaceful series after a period of anarchy prior to Nepos's restauration, hence not needing technically of the acclamation of the army or at least part of it to be recognized Emperor. We shouldn't fall in the trick to believe, as the army proclaimed an emperor and the Senate obliged in the Late Empire, the norm became law because it wasn't. In short that Marcianus received the hail of the armies of Gaul is good and fine, but not essential nor prioritary - if not for a matter of loyalty - for seeing his rights acknowledged. And besides if Nepos died at Rome the Senate had all the time to proclaim Marcianus Emperor before the news would arrive in Gaul. While is too early to say it, the WRE is slowly returning over the tracks of a traditional legitimacy. As it has to be.
And I think the seniority issue would be highly debated if not now in the near future. Constantinople couldn't contest a legitimate successor, seniority or less, if not to attempt to put a proper candidate. But now there isn't a vacuum power in the West, and the WRE-ERE relations are good, Constantinople could only nod and go ahead.
Well not necessarily the distance would be a matter, and OTL technically Theodoric was a viceroy of Italy for the East in the end.
But as it was pointed out the issue over Amalasuntha, the same would be for Amalric. How could a simple Ostrogoth western foederate cheftain manage to let marry her daughter to the king of Visigoths without crossing Rome? I can surmise Nepos could have approved such marriage under certain concessions and reassurances - maybe in a possible Roman-Visigoth distension in anti-Frank key...
Haven't the visigoths reached Iberia yet? And north Africa is probably in the hands of the Vandals at this point. I think in a previous update, the WRE fought the Vandals over Sicily.
The Visigoths rule already on Iberia except to Gallaecia and North Lusitania, ruled by the Suebs (too bad we don't have info over them in this period), Cantabria and the Vascones. But they were plagued by riots now.
The Vandals still rule over Africa, hold Lilybaeum, Corsica and Sardinia. They lost the tribute Rome paid to them but for now they stayed quiet.
The short answer is yes, Nepos’ reign and measures assured a stable succession however soon we will see how the senate (and the entire imperial administration) will try to influence imperial policies while regaining a certain degree of autonomy and ambition.
Soon I m going to give more information about the reorganisation of Gaul.
Great boon for sure. Obviously nothing compared to the sack of Rome, but if well spent, it will help the Romans recovering even more. I was thinking about some improvement in the army (both quantitatively and qualitatively) but we could just use the money later for something more ambitious...
Honestly I didn’t think about this. In a previous update I wrote about the marriage between Theodoricus and Audofleda, but I can always fix this. Theodoricus is still a powerful man in this timeline ( both king of the Pannonia goths and magister militum of the empire), but if you think this marriage creates any problem, I can just change Amalasuntha’s mother ( in any case she will be a different person, and here role would be marginal).
Definitely, but it’s always a good thing to have a happy and supportive senate, considering that the emperor will need their support for the administration of the empire. Once again their ranks will provide loyal and efficient administrators ( or at least this is what everyone hope). Beside I think that here I am one of the few person who wouldn’t consider a purge of the senate as a solution to the problem of the West and in this timeline I will try to give them the “love” they deserve.
If necessary I will fix the information of a previous update.
About the relation between the emperor, the senate and Constantinople we need to wait a couple of updates ( things will get interesting with Justinian).
About the dynastic alliance between Visigoths and Ostrogths, I can only say that we must not consider Theodoricus as fully subjected to Rome and the emperor ; he is a powerful king with its own (de facto indipendent) kingdom.
The emperor can occasionally meddle over minor things but don t expect to see the Ostrogoths obey to the will of the emperor without looking first at their own interest.
As RyuDrago said: Vandals still control Africa and the islands (except most of Sicily) while the Visigoths, after losing Gaul,still control Hispania alongside the Suebi. Any relevant change or event that will happen to them will be reported in the future ( as all of them are going to play an important role here) even if Rome is not directly involved (and I think it also time for a brief update about the eastern situation).
Chapter XXVI: Brief summary of the events of the last decade
Chapter XXVI
The years between the celebration of the ventennalia and the gothic war represented a period of change, transition or return to a previous situation. After the rise of Anastasius to the throne, the eastern empire had to face a revolt from the Isaurian elements of the empire. The war lasted for five years, but the decisive battle took place during the first year of the conflict. After other five years of peace a new conflict erupted between the empire and Persia, that ended after four years without any significative changes except the construction of a new fortification along the eastern Roman border: Anastasiopolis. However the renewed conflict against Persia had negative consequences in the Illyrian portion of the eastern empire.
Since the death of Theodoricus Strabo in 491 the Goths of Thrace had faced a brief period of lack of leadership before appointing as their leader the Gothic-Alan Ermanaric, Aspar’ son who was also related to the last gothic king, Strabo. His reign would last only four years before being succeeded, in 497, by his son Athalaric. The new gothic leader took advantage of the last Roman-Persian war to launch a series of attacks against the undefended Illyrian provinces while allowing barbarian tribes from beyond the Danube to do the same, in order the gain further concession from Constantinople. Until the end of the eastern conflict, the goths inflicted upon the defenceless city of Thrace every kind of damage before being forced by the Roman troops, no more engaged in the East, to renew the previous treaty and accept the preservation of the status quo. Despite what was the expectation of everyone after Amalus’ departure, it was clear that the Danubian limes was far from being completely secured and that the gothic question was still a problem for the eastern Roman court.
Different was the situation of the western empire. After a long period of war, military recovery and stabilisation of the frontier, the inhabitants and soldiers of Italy could finally enjoy a deserved period of peace. Since the end of the Pannonian campaign, Iulius Nepos had spent most of his time in the imperial capital. Long absence from the city were now a rarity, and most of the time the emperor delegated this kind of duties to his most trusted advisors. It was during these years that the magister officiorum and Patricius Marcianus greatly increased his power, often acting as the real master of the events that were taking place in the imperial palace. Old and tired, Nepos had lost the vigour that had marked the first years of his reign, thus delegating the control of the empire to his subordinate while enjoying the pleasures that the palace on the Palatine and the city of Rome had to offer to him. He didn’t however, completely ignore the need to preserve and continue the stabilisation of the empire and more importantly the need to ensure a peaceful transition between his reign and that of his son. Since 497, Marcianus was appointed Comes Domesticorum Peditum and during that same year it was finally celebrated the marriage between Iulius Marcianus and Anicia Eudoxia. Now the current western Roman Caesar was officially part of the wider Theodosian dynasty, thus earning him that legitimacy that his predecessor had failed to acquire since the death of the last Theodosian. After three years from these events, Nepos’ wife, Alypia, along with his brother Anthemius Iunior and his son Procopius, departed from Italy, with the intention of reaching the places where Christ had lived. Here Alypia would earn great fame through donations to the poor or by financing the renovation of old churches. Meanwhile the other members of his entourage would soon leave her in Palestina, before proceeding to the city of Antiochia. Here uncle and nephew would quickly discover their shared interest for knowledge and culture, while attending some lessons of local learned men. During the next years the two men would visit the most important cultural centres of the eastern Roman world, including the cities of Thessalonika, Nicomedia and even Athens. Here the young prince would earn the fame of a great orator, with a deep knowledge of law and history. During his stay at Nicomedia, in 505, Procopius Iunior would earn the permission to enter the imperial capital, where the emperor wished to make good use of his skills. Here Procopius entered in contact with the most important members of the eastern court and administration before becoming an integral part of it. During the following year he would officially represent, along with other important members of the imperial court, emperor Anastasius in front of the Persian envoys, where an agreement was reached by the two side in order to end the recent conflict. After this diplomatic mission, Procopius would return to Constantinople, where he would start to gather the material he needed for his first literary work.
The years between the celebration of the ventennalia and the gothic war represented a period of change, transition or return to a previous situation. After the rise of Anastasius to the throne, the eastern empire had to face a revolt from the Isaurian elements of the empire. The war lasted for five years, but the decisive battle took place during the first year of the conflict. After other five years of peace a new conflict erupted between the empire and Persia, that ended after four years without any significative changes except the construction of a new fortification along the eastern Roman border: Anastasiopolis. However the renewed conflict against Persia had negative consequences in the Illyrian portion of the eastern empire.
Since the death of Theodoricus Strabo in 491 the Goths of Thrace had faced a brief period of lack of leadership before appointing as their leader the Gothic-Alan Ermanaric, Aspar’ son who was also related to the last gothic king, Strabo. His reign would last only four years before being succeeded, in 497, by his son Athalaric. The new gothic leader took advantage of the last Roman-Persian war to launch a series of attacks against the undefended Illyrian provinces while allowing barbarian tribes from beyond the Danube to do the same, in order the gain further concession from Constantinople. Until the end of the eastern conflict, the goths inflicted upon the defenceless city of Thrace every kind of damage before being forced by the Roman troops, no more engaged in the East, to renew the previous treaty and accept the preservation of the status quo. Despite what was the expectation of everyone after Amalus’ departure, it was clear that the Danubian limes was far from being completely secured and that the gothic question was still a problem for the eastern Roman court.
Different was the situation of the western empire. After a long period of war, military recovery and stabilisation of the frontier, the inhabitants and soldiers of Italy could finally enjoy a deserved period of peace. Since the end of the Pannonian campaign, Iulius Nepos had spent most of his time in the imperial capital. Long absence from the city were now a rarity, and most of the time the emperor delegated this kind of duties to his most trusted advisors. It was during these years that the magister officiorum and Patricius Marcianus greatly increased his power, often acting as the real master of the events that were taking place in the imperial palace. Old and tired, Nepos had lost the vigour that had marked the first years of his reign, thus delegating the control of the empire to his subordinate while enjoying the pleasures that the palace on the Palatine and the city of Rome had to offer to him. He didn’t however, completely ignore the need to preserve and continue the stabilisation of the empire and more importantly the need to ensure a peaceful transition between his reign and that of his son. Since 497, Marcianus was appointed Comes Domesticorum Peditum and during that same year it was finally celebrated the marriage between Iulius Marcianus and Anicia Eudoxia. Now the current western Roman Caesar was officially part of the wider Theodosian dynasty, thus earning him that legitimacy that his predecessor had failed to acquire since the death of the last Theodosian. After three years from these events, Nepos’ wife, Alypia, along with his brother Anthemius Iunior and his son Procopius, departed from Italy, with the intention of reaching the places where Christ had lived. Here Alypia would earn great fame through donations to the poor or by financing the renovation of old churches. Meanwhile the other members of his entourage would soon leave her in Palestina, before proceeding to the city of Antiochia. Here uncle and nephew would quickly discover their shared interest for knowledge and culture, while attending some lessons of local learned men. During the next years the two men would visit the most important cultural centres of the eastern Roman world, including the cities of Thessalonika, Nicomedia and even Athens. Here the young prince would earn the fame of a great orator, with a deep knowledge of law and history. During his stay at Nicomedia, in 505, Procopius Iunior would earn the permission to enter the imperial capital, where the emperor wished to make good use of his skills. Here Procopius entered in contact with the most important members of the eastern court and administration before becoming an integral part of it. During the following year he would officially represent, along with other important members of the imperial court, emperor Anastasius in front of the Persian envoys, where an agreement was reached by the two side in order to end the recent conflict. After this diplomatic mission, Procopius would return to Constantinople, where he would start to gather the material he needed for his first literary work.
Interesting snippet of court and social-cultural life, especially now that we would likely see a rise of devotional pilgrimages from the WRE to the Holy Land, or the TTL start of the medieval pilgrim routes. The Francigena/Romea route has still to rise, but is highly probable a Rome-Brundisium high intensity pilgrim route will develop during this century along the Appian way. Montecassino will surely bloom from such transit, and some other cities on the way. It would be interesting if would develop an icon/relic religious commerce in South Italy along the pilgrim route, as what the Church can't get in temporal power ITTL may take from another sources... hmmm maybe the iconclastic debate will involve the WRE and the Roman Patriarchate as well on its very soil?
Also, good note over a first glimpse of Imperial court induced literature, wonder where other literature sources in the Empire could and would rise out of ecclesiastic ambients ofc...
Also, good note over a first glimpse of Imperial court induced literature, wonder where other literature sources in the Empire could and would rise out of ecclesiastic ambients ofc...
Occasionally I will write some updates about events not related to the military/ political sphere and considering that here we had a gap of 10 years without significant episode I thought that it would have been a good idea to follow the events outside Rome.
The practice of the travel to the holy land already existed, even involving important personality like the eastern empress Eudocia or the daughters of important senatorial family like Melania.
Right now I was thinking about the future of this timeline and more specifically the possibility of an alternate iconoclast movement. Almost certainly we will deal with this movement, but the inevitable changes that will affect the empire could probably lead to a different outcome.
We will see when the time comes.
Speaking about the culture, I was thinking about the idea of an alternate fate for the Academy in Athens, but that is not something I am sure I want to include. What I can certainly say is that here Procopius Iunior will fill the role that historically belonged to his namesake from Caesarea ( or one could complete the work of the other), but his role will not end here.
Why instead don't focus over Neoplatonic developments in the West? I don't see much success for Athens's Academy to survive ITTL as well but Neoplatonism could thrive in the WRE as long to being assimilated in a Christian view - well Agustine and Ambrose already did but their speculation didn't proceed further in a period where philosophical and religious debates felt of importance due to other necessities. Only there is to think how. I don't even think if Greek platonic students would seek solace in the West would adapt their views to Neoplatonism, too "Westernized" or worse "Christianized" to their eyes.
What I am implying here is the second Neoplatonism could thrive 1000 years before time because there is the adapt soil - a christian but mostly laical ruled western country with sufficient freedom of thinking. Naturally this could only develop in a very urbanized reality hence or in Rome or most likely Mediolanum. I won't even exclude the Mediolanensis diocesis's autonomy could take off ITTL from becoming an important philosophic center.
Returning on pilgrimages, sure they existed even before Saint Helene, but the gist in this case is a stable and united Roman Christian Italy and this is meaning much ITTL, especially now that Arianism is contracting towards Iberia and Germany and the golden age of Irish Christianity is going soon to start.