frigate vs. third rate

question for those who would know: How would one of the American heavy frigates, like the Constitution or the United States, fair against a third rate, such as the HMS Africa?
 
question for those who would know: How would one of the American heavy frigates, like the Constitution or the United States, fair against a third rate, such as the HMS Africa?

With the best American crew, an even fight. Constitution would disengage if the battle went against her so Africa would be looking for a disabling shot to close.

With equal crews my money would be on a RN win or draw.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
IIRC, the crushing victory scored in Constitution vs. Guerriere was at least in part because she was a French capture with bad rot problems. (Not to take the achievement away, but Guerriere was not a particularly fine specimen of Royal Naval fifth rate.)

I think a non-ship-of-the-line against a ship-of-the-line is at the least an even fight, especially since RN 3rd rates may well have cannonades and generally speaking will be heavily armed. (32-pounder cannonades proved capable of damaging and defeating the USN First Six, as per Chesapeake/Shannon.)
 
A third rate had twice as many guns as a normal frigate. It's broadside amounted to the entire amount of guns a frigate had.

But your talking about the heavy frigate Constitution VS HMS Africa. I'd place my money down on Africa.
 
Given equal crew skill, Number of guns isn't the sole thing to consider. Weight of metal thrown by a third rate (and with Africa you've chosen the smallest third rate in the RN - 64 guns rather than the more usual 74) will be more like 2.5 to 4 times that of a frigate - Africa via Constitution closer to 2.5, Bellerophon vs Hermione closer to 4 times weight.

Toughness of hull, scantlings, masts and rigging are greater in a third rate than a fifth or sixth rate (frigates being lesser to allow greater speed), even if Old Ironsides was notoriously tough. The frigate will be faster at most points of sailing and most sea states, the speed differential lessening as seas get rougher.

So a frigate should avoid a ship of the line. If it gets to a pounding match, the frigate is likely to lose, so it's best chance if battle is unavoidable is to stay at distance and attempt to dismast the battleship. That's a difficult proposition. I'd fall on the side of Africa many more times than Constitution, even though that's the closest frigate vs battleship fight there's going to be.
 
Thank you everyone. I figured the original six would stand a chance against the smaller 3rd rates. The reason I mentioned the Africa was that IRC at one point it was chasing the Constitution during the War of 1812.
 
Thank you everyone. I figured the original six would stand a chance against the smaller 3rd rates. The reason I mentioned the Africa was that IRC at one point it was chasing the Constitution during the War of 1812.

The Original Six would not stand a chance, they would be beaten almost everytime
 
Weather

The weather could be a factor, too. Some of the smaller ships of the line might not be able to open their lower gunports in a storm, which would leave the advantage to the frigate.
Battles are volatile things, and the frigate has a chance, just not a great one. The frigate should engage, IMVHO, only if the mission is worth the probable loss of the ship. (And sometimes a mission is important enough that you have to sacrifice the ship to delay a stronger enemy.)
 
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