Friends Across The Sea! A Germany/Britain Timeline

I know, I read it while I was still doing the update. In this TL, he just lives a little longer.

Sadly the best thing that could happen as far as the German and British Empires are concerned. Regards.
As the main aim for doing this TL was to explore how a British- German alliance might turn out, removing Wilhelm 2 from the throne was planned from the start.

I don't get why so many people consider the german empire an absolutist monarchy, it had a constituiton and a quite progressive (at least on the federal level) electoral law.


That isn´t quite right.
The Constitution of 1871 demanded that the Emperor needed Bundesrat approval to declare war. The only exception was in case that an attack on Germany was already in progress.
And of course the Emperor then needed Reichstag approval for any war budgets. The budget right was essentially the main "weapon" of the Reichstag. Even Wilhelm II tried to choose Chancellors that were acceptable to the Reichstag.

So I´d support Mirage here. Germany wasn´t an absolutist monarchy, though it wasn´t a constitutional monarchy either.
(In Britain for example only 60% of males could vote, the German federal election law was more progressive here.)
It was a federation of states, in which the member states - represented in the Bundesrat - retained significant rights especially in domestic matters.

The main problem of the constitution was that it was custom tailored to the person of Bismarck.
So I definitely approve of the three political reforms here in this TL. They remove most of the problems. So continue the TL!

Two things however are still missing?


  • Elsass-Lothringen (Alsace-Lorraine).
    As a "Reichsland" it was under imperial / federal control. Why didn´t push Fredrick for member state status?
  • Obligatory regular meetings between the Emperor, Army General staff and the government. A main problem of OTL Imperial Germany was that the General Staff developed war plans with total disregard to foreign policy (see Belgium).
I adjusted the wording to 'made Germany more democratic' and 'made the Kaiser less powerful' to take your advice into account.

The republic clause I mentioned is something which Alsace Lorraine could use in the future, though the second point is something I didn't know.
 
Part VII: The Russo - Japanese war and Irish Home Rule.

The cause of the Russo-Japanese war in 1904 was mainly over Manchuria. After a sneak attack on Port Arthur, weakening the Russian pacific fleet. After a quick (unopposed) invasion of Korea, the Japanese attacked Port Arthur and were able to take the port. However, the some of the Russian fleet was able to escape to Vladivostok, the Japanese, realising that to siege the port would prolong the war offered to negotiate with the Russians. The Baltic fleet, renamed the second pacific fleet, was also on the way to Russia and the Americans offered to negotiate a peace deal, which lead to both sides agreeing to a ceasefire in January 1905
The war ended in a Japanese victory, and the Russians were forced to give up Port Arthur. However, both countries set out clear spheres of influence in china and Korea. Russia, which was beginning to suffer from civil unrest was forced to give more power to the duma in what is now known as the 1905 Russian revolution.
Japanese troops marching though korea​

In the Far East, after the boxer rebellion in 1900, Japan had been attempting to win influence in china and Korea. In 1906, the Korean-Japanese protectoral agreement was signed after the Russo-Japanese war. This meant that Korea would let japan handle its foreign affairs, and defend it militarily.
In 1905, Norway and Sweden broke their personal union. The peaceful break up was rather insignificant to the rest of Europe. The two countries had been drifting apart, only sharing a king and diplomatic staff. The break up was peaceful. Both of the countries were neutral during the Great War, though both Sweden and Norway did provide much help to the displaced though in the conflict though the Red Cross.
In 1906, the liberal party under the leadership of Herbert Asquith passed the Irish home rule bill by a healthy margin. However the bill was blocked in the house of the lords, which had a conservative majority. The liberal party asked the king to flood the house with liberal peers, which the king said he would only do if the liberals called a general election. However, the conservative leadership proposed a compromise, in which the conservatives would pass the bill on the condition that the mainly protestant province of ulster was excluded from the bill. The Irish Parliamentary Party agreed, despite facing a small revolt from some northern members. At the same time, the chancellor, David Lloyd George passed the old age pensions act, giving those over 70, 5 shillings a week.


Henry Asquith​

Irish home rule was a popular policy in Ireland with the catholic Irish, but not as much with the protestant elite. Many Protestants in the south moved north, and many Catholics in ulster moved south or emigrated to the USA or Canada. However, some ulster Catholics felt like military force was the best way to solve the problem and several terrorist groups were founded, the most prominent being the Ulster catholic freedom army and in July 1909, attempted to seize control of Londonderry. Enjoying some initial success, the UCFA was able to gain control of several important buildings, including the magistrate court, where the magistrates were tried and shot for ‘treason to the Irish state’. Such acts provoked outrage across Britain and Ireland, and started Anti-Catholic riots in Belfast. However, the revolt was put down swiftly by the British army. Many Irish nationalists were upset by the revolution and John Redmond commented that the Londonderry uprising set back Irish nationalism by quarter of a century. However, the rebels were found to be using French weaponry, leading to suggestions that the French had provoked the uprising, or even sent French troops to help.

In 1907, the Boer states agreed to join the Union of South Africa. Both of the Boer states were majority British, (not including blacks) and after the agreement, the union of South Africa was formed. While some of the Dutch Afrikaner minority felt upset by the agreement, many others saw it as a way to turn the former Boer states into a thriving part of the world economy. On a slightly more sinister note, a Boer Nationalist by the name of Joseph Dekker said that the Boers had a destiny to settle southern Africa, as a leefgebied, driving out the un-human Africans, and the British. When the Union of South Africa was formed on the 1st April 1908, the world’s eyes, however were on a different part of Africa…
 
interesting story,

tirpitz doesn't get his dn navy and Gb is allied with Germany.

i can see germany getting larger after the great war at the expense of Austria.

more please
 
I'm loving this timeline though how did the British manage to become a majority in the Boer states?

IOTL, the Boers numbered only 400,000 while white, mainly British settlers numbered about 800,000. In IOTL, the boers used voting laws meaning that mainly, only boers got the vote and Britain demanding slightly fairer suffrage laws started the boer war. ITTL, the Boers agree to change it as they don't have any German support, and therefore the general population agree to join the union of south Africa, a British dominion a few years after voting laws are changed.

interesting story,

tirpitz doesn't get his dn navy and Gb is allied with Germany.

i can see germany getting larger after the great war at the expense of Austria.

more please
Thank you:)
I post weekly updates every Saturday, so you will have to wait a bit.
I also made a map of the world for 1907.
 

Ryan

Donor
nice map :)

one thing though, shouldn't Sakhalin be at least split between Russia and japan?
 
interesting story,

tirpitz doesn't get his dn navy and Gb is allied with Germany.

i can see germany getting larger after the great war at the expense of Austria.

more please

I could see Tirol going to Germany so there is a boarder with Italy and Italy getting some coastal areas of modern day Slovakia and Croatia.
 
nice map :)

one thing though, shouldn't Sakhalin be at least split between Russia and japan?

That was something which I thought about a lot. I decided that facing a siege of Vladivostok, and with the Baltic fleet still to beaten, Sakhalin won't be split, plus the war ends earlier than in IOTL.

I could see Tirol going to Germany so there is a boarder with Italy and Italy getting some coastal areas of modern day Slovakia and Croatia.

That's if the CP win...
 

Ryan

Donor
That was something which I thought about a lot. I decided that facing a siege of Vladivostok, and with the Baltic fleet still to beaten, Sakhalin won't be split, plus the war ends earlier than in IOTL.

iirc japan controlled southern Sakhalin before the war and the definite border was established in the peace treaty, so Russia controlling the entire island would mean japan lost control of it.
 
Good point.:D

but is germany part of the Central Powers i think it'd be closer to the imperial powers.

and I just saw a nice bit of blue in south east asia that is just crying out to be the main base for the Asiatic Fleet.
and with a less threatening navy Gb just might let germany have it as a means to show Japan that if they head towards its colonies and dominions it will get itself into a war with two powerful imperials powers.
 
now onto the KlM

while the size and shape of the KlM is different the same or similar design philosophies would probably arise from the same people doing the designing.

so we'll probably find that the german version of the battle cruiser will still be built faster and heavier armoured than their british cousins but with lighter main weaponry so not to appear to be a threat to the RN.

I'd be surprised if this version of the KlM didn't have more battle cruisers than dreadnoughts.
after all german will want to protect its colonies from fast cruisers and that was what battlecruisers were designed to deal with.

if the french want to deal with these german battle cruisers in the colonies they have to deploy dreadnoughts there and the RN wont like that but germany would as there would be less french ships where they are really needed.

as long as the germans don't built a fleet that threatens the RN they would probably sit back and cheer on the German battle cruisers as they tear up the french cruisers and merchants.

yes i do know you mentioned colonial cruisers but i envision them as being more like monitors than anything else not a true deep water ship capable of traversing the globe with out the need of other ships to help it get there.

just my two cents worth.

oh anf please ave an analogue of the Machensens built a pity they never go to text themselves in battle.
 
iirc japan controlled southern Sakhalin before the war and the definite border was established in the peace treaty, so Russia controlling the entire island would mean japan lost control of it.

Nope. The Japanese gave up all claims to the island in 1875 in return for the Kuril islands.

while the size and shape of the KlM is different the same or similar design philosophies would probably arise from the same people doing the designing.

so we'll probably find that the german version of the battle cruiser will still be built faster and heavier armoured than their british cousins but with lighter main weaponry so not to appear to be a threat to the RN.

I'd be surprised if this version of the KlM didn't have more battle cruisers than dreadnoughts.
after all german will want to protect its colonies from fast cruisers and that was what battlecruisers were designed to deal with.

if the french want to deal with these german battle cruisers in the colonies they have to deploy dreadnoughts there and the RN wont like that but germany would as there would be less french ships where they are really needed.

as long as the germans don't built a fleet that threatens the RN they would probably sit back and cheer on the German battle cruisers as they tear up the french cruisers and merchants.

yes i do know you mentioned colonial cruisers but i envision them as being more like monitors than anything else not a true deep water ship capable of traversing the globe with out the need of other ships to help it get there.

just my two cents worth.

oh anf please ave an analogue of the Machensens built a pity they never go to text themselves in battle.

I going to devote a whole chapter to naval construction at some point, but that's a few weeks away. The Germany navy is going to be smaller, but isn't going to comprise on size and firepower so not to upset the RN

but is germany part of the Central Powers i think it'd be closer to the imperial powers.

and I just saw a nice bit of blue in south east asia that is just crying out to be the main base for the Asiatic Fleet.
and with a less threatening navy Gb just might let germany have it as a means to show Japan that if they head towards its colonies and dominions it will get itself into a war with two powerful imperials powers.

Germany already has ships in china and a colony in new guinea. The Japanese are also British allies.
 
Its still Saturday in Hawaii and Alaska :)

Part Vlll: The Congo crisis and the Bulgarian revolution

The Congo crisis was undoubtedly the nearest the European alliances came to all out conflict in the 1900’s. In September 1907 King Leopold Congo Free State had been denounced as a despotic state ran as King Leopold’s private fiefdom, where murder and mutilation were common practise as well as far more uncommon cannibalism.
Congolese who had their hands cut off.​

In Belgium, many called for its annexation, so it came as a surprise to many that the Congo Free State was to be sold to the French in February 1908. The French cited that they had right of first purchase. Germany and Britain challenged this. France sent warships on aggressive movements up the English Channel, to be challenged by the HMS dreadnought, a new breed of battleship. Germany sent a small force of Colonial soldiers into the Congo. Both sides were making increasingly aggressive actions, and many were concerned a war might break out. In March, Italy offered to negotiate between all three sides.

The Congo conference was held in Rome, in June 1908 with the French, British, Germans and Belgians attending. The British were hoping to get the mineral rich Katanga area in the Congo, while minimising French gains. They hoped to possibly let Belgium retain control of some of the Congo. The French wanted to annex the entire Congo, but accepted that they might need to trade some other colonies to make this happen. The Germans were hoping to gain some of the French or Belgium Congo. Also invited were Belgium who were interested in keeping some kind of colonial presence. The Italians were hoping to gain something out the conference, maybe from the British in east Africa. At first, both the Germans and the French demanded the whole Congo, while Britain demanded the Katanga region. At the end of the first day, both the Germans and French agreed to give Britain Katanga. Belgium suggested that it would retain the lower Congo while the rest would be split between Germany and France. However, Britain suggested that France cede a large piece of French equa Africa to Germany, with France getting most the Congo. The British suggested that France cede one of their colonies to Belgium as compensation, France ceding part of French Dahomey to Belgium. Portugal also received a small lump, mainly to appease the British, who hoped to gain an alliance with the Portuguese, as this would allow the British the use of the Azore islands. The treaty of Rome was signed in February 1908. King Leopold died the next year a rather unpopular king.

In 1907, Bulgaria was known as the Prussia of the Balkans. Bulgaria Declared war on Greece in April 1908 after a border Incident, claiming that ‘the Bulgarian people had an ancient right to the port of Salonika. At first the Bulgarian army was able to overrun the Greek positions, but the entry of Serbia into the war forced a large relocation of some forces to other fronts. After the battle of Pedino on May 28th, the Bulgarian army was forced into retreat.

Protestors on June 6th
In the capital city of Bulgaria, Sofia after the battle of Pedino, a group of factory workers went on strike on the 4th as they had not been paid and picketed outside their factory in When told to go back to work, they refused and a small military unit, formed mainly of minor convicts who had been recruited into the army at the start of the war, opened fire on them. News spread and on June 6th, a general strike was declared. After a short attempt to break up the crowd by some soldiers, the workers, some armed with rifles stormed the army positions at about noon. The workers stormed important buildings in the city and by the end of the day, controlled most the city. Many of the workers elected leaders, and several factories including an arms factory started working to produce more equipment for the revolutionary militia. Working in many cases all hours of the day, they produced much needed weapons for the Revolutionary militia.
In the countryside, peasants inspired by the successes in the city took control of their farms and kicked out the local gentry. In their place, they elected leaders to run the farms, and declared them to be syndicates. Many surrounding the city brought in food for the city.
On June 10th, the loyalist army hasty assembled out of whatever the Bulgarian army could find assaulted the city. Filled with a variety of men from a son of the Prime Minister, to a convict due to be hung the next day, they attempted to force their way into the town. However, encountering Heavy resistance, the Loyalist Army broke apart, many deflecting to the workers, some running away, and in the case of the convict, shooting dead a 24 year old women. (He was hung a day early from a tree.)

The revolutionary militia
The Bulgarian government in a state of panic offered a generous peace to the Serbians and the Greeks, giving them control of several disputed areas. However, which much of the Bulgarian army deflecting to the Revolutionary’s, The Bulgarian government escaped to the city of Varna, which had so far been unaffected by the revolution. Austria-Hungary provided considerable military aid to the revolutionary’s fearing a similar movement in Austria-Hungary. Meanwhile, in Sofia, the leaders of the revolutionary’s set up the world’s first syndicalist government in the Sofia congress. Each factory would elect a leader who would be in charge of the overall running of the factory and all workers would have a say in the running of their factories. They agreed on universal suffrage as many women had assisted the revolution by acting as nurses as well as several actually fighting, establishing a formal military for the republic, the revolutionary militia, which would elect its own officers, though higher up officers would be appointed by the state. To finish, the final act of the congress was to declare the Syndicalist republic of Bulgaria. The Bulgarian civil war had begun.
 
No comments :confused:. Bit of a surprise.

Here is a map of the world in 1908. In the German Congo, a revolt by some natives has sprung up.

1908.png

1908.png
 
Part IX- The Bulgarian civil war

The Bulgarian civil war was a rather short civil war. The royalist forces, enjoying Austro-Hungarian support, were in a difficult tactical situation. With much of their army in the west of the country, with many units totally deflected to the other side, they were forced to scrape up all available military forces to provide a decent army. The royalists were able to convince the Turkish government to allow a large formation of Bulgarian soldiers to pass though their territory, albeit at the cost of an elderly destroyer and a small quantity of gold. Scratching together almost every solider in the country, Bulgarians were able to put together a sizeable force.


Revolutionary militia troops
The revolutionaries were under armed and many had no formal military training. However, Serbia and Greece cautiously gave arms to the rebels, mainly captured Bulgarian arms. POW were also encouraged to join the Revolutionaries.
The rest of the month of june was rather bland, though royalist forces were driven out of Plovdiv. The royalist forces, regrouping scored a small victory in the coastal town of balchik, securing the Bulgarian coast. The revolutionaries began the long march to the sea, reaching the town of Yambol by the end of the year. In august, the royalist forces attempted to push though the mountain passes near Sofia. Stopped by the Revolutionary militia, the battles on the northern front were some of the most brutal of the war.



In April 1909, the Revolutionaries took the town of burgas, on the Bulgarian coast. Having reached the sea, the revolutionaries marched along the coast, with the royalist government evacuating to the Crimean city of Sevastopol. After the fall of Varna, the royalist forces disintegrated, the only real resistance the holdouts in the town of Razgrad, under the command of Vasil Kutinchev, who held out until September 1909, when the beleaguered remnants of the 3rd Loyalist regiment marched into exile.

Once the war was over, a large debate took place between the demokratsiya faction who believed that the revolution should be kept to Bulgaria, at least for the time being, to build a successful syndicalist state, and the razpredelenie faction, who wanted to support attempts to create socialist countries across the Balkans. However, the Demokratsiya had the support of most of the Syndicates. Syndicates were factory units mainly independent of government control, apart from abiding by certain regulations. Many were very powerful, especially in Sofia, the heart of the revolution. They negotiated with the government, who would buy their products. Many Syndicates existed in the countryside, having taken the lands of large landowners, though many small landowners remained. The military remained, after the disbanding of many of the revolutionary Militia units, as a major poilictal force, especially as many ex-soldiers kept their arms. The Revolutionary militia was renamed the Bulgarian people’s army.

However, in 1909, after the end of civil war, bands of soldiers went around the countryside, and setting up courts to try ‘traitors and other scourges’ Many were found guilty and forced to work in the fields, or if unlucky, shot. Known as the scourge of the guilty, many escaped to the exiled royalist regime. The Bulgarian government started to attempt to modernise the country, promising that every town of more than 10,000 people would have a railway connection by 1925.

A large outbreak of cholera happened after the war

The royalist government in exile continued to hope for national liberation, and maintained a small army of 2000 men, as well as a Destroyer and two torpedo boats. A small exodus took place, mainly due to the scourge of the guilty and in 1925, 200,000 Bulgarians lived in the town of Nova Varna, and the rest of the Crimea. Many worked for the government owned black sea merchant marine, made up the Bulgarian merchant marine, which was mainly loyal to the government. Combined with the taxes taken in Nova Varna, the Royalists were able to fund their armed forces, including the purchase of a pair of second hand destroyers in 1921.
 
Still no comments. Does anybody have a problem with Syndicalist Bulgaria?
Here is the flag of the fore mentioned Syndicalist republic of Bulgaria. Not that socialist, but rather Bulgarian.

bulgaria.png
 

Ryan

Donor
why did Bulgaria attack Greece but not the ottomans during the Balkan war? did they think they'd be able to beat Greece and Serbia?

nice flag though :)

EDIT:
Does anybody have a problem with Syndicalist Bulgaria?

I guess it does seem a bit out of place, after all communism in Russia only came to power after 3 years of horrendous fighting (which hasn't happened here) and as far as I know otl 2nd Balkan war never saw an uprising against the Bulgarian government.
 
I continue to read this with interest. I generally don't comment, just lurk, but I did want to express my interest and encouragement.
 
why did Bulgaria attack Greece but not the ottomans during the Balkan war? did they think they'd be able to beat Greece and Serbia?

nice flag though :)

EDIT:


I guess it does seem a bit out of place, after all communism in Russia only came to power after 3 years of horrendous fighting (which hasn't happened here) and as far as I know otl 2nd Balkan war never saw an uprising against the Bulgarian government.

Attacking the Ottomans would overstretch the Bulgarians.
Also, the revolution was mainly down to a heavy handed resolution to a pay dispute. The revolution just happened, the civil war was won. The Bulgarian republic has got quite a few internal problems, and the international reaction, (next update!) is less than good.

Remember, the Balkans are quite different in this timeline.

I continue to read this with interest. I generally don't comment, just lurk, but I did want to express my interest and encouragement.

Thank you. I do a lot of lurking as well. I'm currently reading the whale has wings - https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=224761
Taught me a lot about Naval aviation.
 
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