Friday the 13th Templar style

HI everyone. In case you are wondering Friday the 13th was when King Philip of France arrested all the Knights of the Temple Mount, and seized their lands and goods. The Templars did not resist except for a certain group that got away with the "Treasure" (read "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" if you don't know what I am talking about). What I want to know is what would have likely happened if Templars everywhere rose up against France and Pope Clement V. What would happen if the Templars hurled the accusations right back at Philip and Clement and went Crusader on them. Would France have been able to repel them? Would other countries pick sides and this become World War I Crusader style? WOuld King Edward have abandoned Scotland and invaded France instead? Or would he help France against the Templars. What about the Holy Roman Empire? Hell, what about the rest of the Christian world. Could the Templars have set up a theocracy, like on Vatican Island?
 
1. There is no evidence for the theory that they escaped with anything of importance.
2. The Templars where really too spread out to actually fight the french as a unified group (let alone how they wheren't all in France).
3. France completely outnumbered the knights who had been in decline for centuries as a military order due to the loss of the holy land and crusader states.
 
HI everyone. In case you are wondering Friday the 13th was when King Philip of France arrested all the Knights of the Temple Mount, and seized their lands and goods. The Templars did not resist except for a certain group that got away with the "Treasure" (read "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" if you don't know what I am talking about). What I want to know is what would have likely happened if Templars everywhere rose up against France and Pope Clement V. What would happen if the Templars hurled the accusations right back at Philip and Clement and went Crusader on them. Would France have been able to repel them? Would other countries pick sides and this become World War I Crusader style? WOuld King Edward have abandoned Scotland and invaded France instead? Or would he help France against the Templars. What about the Holy Roman Empire? Hell, what about the rest of the Christian world. Could the Templars have set up a theocracy, like on Vatican Island?

The Pope would have revoked the Vatican's support for the Knights Templar who were chartered under the Pope's authority like the Franciscans, the Dominicans, and the Hospitallers, declared them heretics, and called for a European-wide Crusade. The end result would have probably been something along the lines of a bigger, longer, and bloodier Albigensian Crusade.
 
The Holy Blood and Holy Grail is so riddled with factual error as to be equivalent to citing Gavin Menzies in regards to the Treasure Fleet.

I do want to dispute the idea that the Templars had been in decline for "centuries" - the Order hasn't even existed for more than two and change centuries, and the last Christian foothold in the East fell only less than a generation before.

Meanwhile, their riches are quite significant.

But otherwise, I agree with eliphas - at most the Order might muster something equivalent to a rebellious duke, and that's pushing it.
 
The Holy Blood and Holy Grail is so riddled with factual error as to be equivalent to citing Gavin Menzies in regards to the Treasure Fleet.

I do want to dispute the idea that the Templars had been in decline for "centuries" - the Order hasn't even existed for more than two and change centuries, and the last Christian foothold in the East fell only less than a generation before.

Meanwhile, their riches are quite significant.

But otherwise, I agree with eliphas - at most the Order might muster something equivalent to a rebellious duke, and that's pushing it.

Oops, kind of mixed in things about the other major historical group of knights from the holy land now that I realize it.
 
to boost the templars, let's move to pod to a few generations before the said friday 13th.

can the templars be a bit more successful? get a permanent base like rhodes?

as they are no match for france, i guess the best they could hope for would be something like a stalemate where they get to keep cyprus or something like that : defensible location, surrounded by water, close enough to the muslims to keep pretending that the age of crusades isn't over. they could then subsist on piracy and provide a base and some ships & men for anyone (like venice) who wishes to the ottomans (or whoever the butterflies choose to lead the muslims in the area) for a price. the christians who flee the outremer (and perhaps the jews exiled from spain?) could bolster the population .

if they miraculously survive for a century or two, they can go teutonic and secularize into a duchy.

they could have some important cultural & scientific impact if they serve as a conduit between the muslims and europe, translating ancient texts in monasteries etc.

in the 20th century things will get fun for this little state if the *ottomans start to disintegrate on schedule .
 
to boost the templars, let's move to pod to a few generations before the said friday 13th.

can the templars be a bit more successful? get a permanent base like rhodes?

Possibly, but "a few generations before" - or even a few years before - no one is going to be thinking this will happen.

as they are no match for france, i guess the best they could hope for would be something like a stalemate where they get to keep cyprus or something like that : defensible location, surrounded by water, close enough to the muslims to keep pretending that the age of crusades isn't over. they could then subsist on piracy and provide a base and some ships & men for anyone (like venice) who wishes to the ottomans (or whoever the butterflies choose to lead the muslims in the area) for a price. the christians who flee the outremer (and perhaps the jews exiled from spain?) could bolster the population .

That would work if they weren't charged with every sin under the sun.

if they miraculously survive for a century or two, they can go teutonic and secularize into a duchy.

they could have some important cultural & scientific impact if they serve as a conduit between the muslims and europe, translating ancient texts in monasteries etc.

in the 20th century things will get fun for this little state if the *ottomans start to disintegrate on schedule .

This little state isn't likely to make into the 20th century with something like the *Ottomans in the area.
 
As someone who has read up the historical Templars, I'm kinda disappointed in you having to resort to fictional sources to find the date.
Sorry about that. Generally Jack Whyte is very accurate with his facts. And considering how much of the Templars was shrouded in mystery, he has as much chance of being correct as you or anyone else. BTW is it Friday the 13th?
 
Sorry about that. Generally Jack Whyte is very accurate with his facts. And considering how much of the Templars was shrouded in mystery, he has as much chance of being correct as you or anyone else. BTW is it Friday the 13th?

And considering that Jack Whyte is a novelist and not a historian, no, he does not have as much chance of being correct as anyone else.

As for the date:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm

TL;DR: Yes.

But relying on a work of fiction to determine that is a bad idea, given that the templars are not merely shrouded in mystery but in myth.
 
As had been said before the Templars weren't in any shape to mount a resistance, let alone strike back at THE KING OF FRANCE. You do understand that France is one of the wealthiest, most put together polities in Europe at this time, right? For reference the Knights Templar fielded between 15,000 and 20,000 men at their HEIGHT. France regularly called upon numbers at least twice that during their various wars with England. For France 10,500 men, like the army at the Battle of Patay was one army out of SEVERAL. Not to mention that the French have home field advantage here which will shorten their supply lines and increase coordination, wheras the Templars would have to pull forces from all over europe.
 
Top