French Revolution Fails- King restored pre 1800 ->Effects on Europe

So the Anti Revolutionary Alliance manages to crush the Revolution and put the Bourbons back on the Throne pre 1800.

No Egypt, No Napoleon, No Napoleonic Code, No Europe wide use of the French system [Metric], No Cislipine Republic/Kingdom North italy, No Confederation of the Rhine, No Invasion of Russia to awaken the Bear, Etc.

So How does this Europe develop.
 
By the laws of irony, the United States would adopt the metric system early on and would still be one of the only countries using an odd system.

But seriously, I don't know enough to be able to say anything intelligently.
 

Susano

Banned
if the Coalition restores the French monarchy, its likely they also decide to make France cede some land. I mean, the French revolution wont have been a big thing yet, so the European powers will still be caught in the same think, enemyships and alliances as in the previous generations, so they might seek to revert at least some of the last 150 years of French expansionism.
 
I think that the circumstances other than 'the antirevolutionary alliance succeeds pre-1800' would be nice to know if any sort of effects are to be identified. When do they manage it, how, and why?
 
It might be a benefit for the USA (emigration of revolutionaries from France), even if UK might think that the clock of history can be made to go backwards (early 1812 war?).

I don't think that the restauration would come at a price.
However, the issue is that the Bourbon kingdom was an absolute mess, and restoring it would not do anything to solve the problems (it could well intensify them: restorations usually err on the side of vengeance).
My guess is that another couple of bad harvests would bring back the revolution tout de suite.
 
I think a lot depends on how the revolution fails.

For exemples :
+ The french armies are crushed by the Autro-Prussian ( plus assorted german states ) at Valmy and the coalition continues to Paris. Brunswick manifesto is applied and Paris rased to the ground.
+ Catelineau is not killed when assaulting Nantes. The Chouans and Vendeens take Paris chanting the Vexilla Regis, restoring the king.
+ During the Directoire, the Power than Be negociate with the King, calling him back to stop anarchy ( and securing a lot of advantages to themselves ).

Only in the first case would the french possibly lose some territories. In the other two, they are likely to keep what they have at that point, at least Belgium and likely other parts which were officially annexed ( possibly including the whole of the left banck of the Rhine in the last scenario ).

A lot of other cases can be thought of, each of which has very different consequences. The french revolution is butterfly heaven.
 

Susano

Banned
In case of 2, the other powers would probably successfully invade during the time of upheaval in France. Probably compromise peace at the pre-revolution border.s Heh, makes for a neat symetry - at 1 the coalition gains, at 2 neither gains and at 3 France gains... (if its a smooth transistion of power the other powers probably could not sucessfully strike at the French occupied territories)
 
i do really wish to know in what year the Revolution is crushed. if it is crushed early (1792-1793) then Louis XVI is back in power (his powers mostly unchanged) and France is Europe's bitch, have to give up some lands and owning other nations land, if it's after 1793 (till 1795) it's his son Louis XVII, the monarchy is very much cut down to size his Uncle (Louis XVIII) may or may not be made regent, if it's after 1795 it's hard to say, it all has to do with how bad it got, Louis XVIII maybe get the crown with all the powers with all of Europe asking him to crush the French people in the dirt or a weak crown as in OTL, or some one else (other then the Bourbons) might being given the crown (one of George III's sons?)
 
I think a lot depends on how the revolution fails.

For exemples :
+ The french armies are crushed by the Autro-Prussian ( plus assorted german states ) at Valmy and the coalition continues to Paris. Brunswick manifesto is applied and Paris rased to the ground.
+ Catelineau is not killed when assaulting Nantes. The Chouans and Vendeens take Paris chanting the Vexilla Regis, restoring the king.
+ During the Directoire, the Power than Be negociate with the King, calling him back to stop anarchy ( and securing a lot of advantages to themselves ).

Only in the first case would the french possibly lose some territories. In the other two, they are likely to keep what they have at that point, at least Belgium and likely other parts which were officially annexed ( possibly including the whole of the left banck of the Rhine in the last scenario ).

A lot of other cases can be thought of, each of which has very different consequences. The french revolution is butterfly heaven.

I always thought something along the 3rd was the best bet.. you get some major reforms and the Monarchy transitions to a Constitutional Monarchy.

Lets say that Mirabeau does not die when he does and he has a relationship with the Queen that is more favourable earlier. his influence and that of his faction prevents the death of the king and the monarchy remains hostage to events in the early stages.

Louis opposes the war against Austria and the Emigres but it goes forward largely as a Girondin project. The initial stages did not go well despite the victory at Valmy. Hopefully Louis's opposition will buy him some good favour with the jacobin faction that opposed the war against the Emigres and the export of revolution. As the the Girondins fall from favour Mirabeau's faction becomes marginally more influential than the combined Jacobin and Remnant Girondins.
there is no Terror, but Robespierre and Danton may still be major figures in the Jacobin club. by the time things sort themselves out in late 94 France essentially has 2 major forces in politics of nearly equal weight. The radical Jacobins and more moderate Girondins on the one side and the Feuillants under a now failing Mirabeau and Barnave on the other.

I don't know if you would get the Directory though I suppose you could ( with the King as head and the Directory largely as what his advisory council.. Louis XVII then I expect),,, more likely something along the lines of a parliamentary state that borrows heavily from that of Britain where applicable but with its own distinctive French features ( either Louis is returned directly or Luis XVII could take power). And yes I was thinkiung the French would probably keep at least Belgium and the left bank in this case as they would have been caught up int he revolutionary fervour of the transition in France itself.

Its also possible the left Bank is returned and only Belgium is kept, or even Belgium transitions to a CM of its own as the kdm of Belgium under the Duke of Orleans...Louis' brothers might be considered...too conservative while Phillippe Egalite...might be acceptable in that case.

Here you have France in '96 having transitioned through its upheaval without the excess' of the Terror and the resultant Thermidorian reaction with major reform in place and at least some semblance of balance between the two factions in its poitics, with the levee en masse in place.. The King is probably not going to want to go adventuring further, preferring a breathing space to let things settle even further. So probably no Nile campaign. Is peace possible with Britain at this point if all the other powers have left the 1st coalition. Without any engaements with its neighbours can this France re-integrate Saint Domingue, would they even want to....probably, or could they reach an accomodation that emancipates France's Black population on its Carribean possessions instead.
 
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Louis opposes the war against Austria and the Emigres but it goes forward largely as a Girondin project. The initial stages did not go well despite the victory at Valmy. Hopefully Louis's opposition will buy him some good favour with the jacobin faction that opposed the war against the Emigres and the export of revolution. .

:confused::confused::confused:

I'm pretty sure that OTL, it was the Montagnard ( ie jacobins ) pushing most for the war against Emigre and reactionary europe and that Girondins went along with in more unwillingly, pushed by Montagnards ( and the Queen's conspiracy ). Also, I'd say that the initial stages of the war ( which indeed, did not go well ) ended with Valmy ( with the french finally reusing the royal artillerie properly ).

Its also possible the left Bank is returned and only Belgium is kept, or even Belgium transitions to a CM of its own as the kdm of Belgium under the Duke of Orleans...Louis' brothers might be considered...too conservative while Phillippe Egalite...might be acceptable in that case..

That, In my opinion, depends on the date of divergence. If it is before annexion into France propoer, that is possible ( but really depends on whther there is war or not ); if it is afterward, I doubt it will happen. For Belgium ( including Maastricht ), that date was 1792. For the left bank of the Rhine, it was later ( 1798 or 1800, IIRC, I don't have my references right here )

Here you have France in '96 having transitioned through its upheaval without the excess' of the Terror and the resultant Thermidorian reaction with major reform in place and at least some semblance of balance between the two factions in its poitics, with the levee en masse in place.. The King is probably not going to want to go adventuring further, preferring a breathing space to let things settle even further. So probably no Nile campaign. Is peace possible with Britain at this point if all the other powers have left the 1st coalition. .

Again going by memory, but I don't think Uk was in the first coalition; IIRC, it only piled against revolutionary France later

Without any engaements with its neighbours can this France re-integrate Saint Domingue, would they even want to....probably, or could they reach an accomodation that emancipates France's Black population on its Carribean possessions instead.

ACtually, Slavery was abolished as one of the first actions of the revolution and there were black parliamentary from Haiti seated in Paris. It was Napolaon who reinstated slavery; that will not happen in this TL.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Almost no matter what exactly happens in France when and after the revolution fails, it will most likely mean the ancien regimes staying on top for longer. First of all Austria and the HRE, but also a wide range of small and medium sizes principalities that vanished in OTL.

Germany will remain the chaotic patchwork of pre-Napoleon, and without the OTL experience of French occupation etc. German nationalism is likely to be postponed or not appear at all in the form we know.

The economic and demographic basics that created OTL 19th century will not be that much changed however, and I think we have basis for some high pressure building up in Germany. In some ways it is like transforming the OTL situation in Russia into all of Europe and especially Germany - i.e. the burgeoise is not settled in power before the industrial development produces new well organised and volatile movements.

In some ways it would be like how Marx and Engels originally thought it would be...

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
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:confused::confused::confused:

I'm pretty sure that OTL, it was the Montagnard ( ie jacobins ) pushing most for the war against Emigre and reactionary europe and that Girondins went along with in more unwillingly, pushed by Montagnards ( and the Queen's conspiracy ). Also, I'd say that the initial stages of the war ( which indeed, did not go well ) ended with Valmy ( with the french finally reusing the royal artillerie properly ).



That, In my opinion, depends on the date of divergence. If it is before annexion into France propoer, that is possible ( but really depends on whther there is war or not ); if it is afterward, I doubt it will happen. For Belgium ( including Maastricht ), that date was 1792. For the left bank of the Rhine, it was later ( 1798 or 1800, IIRC, I don't have my references right here )



Again going by memory, but I don't think Uk was in the first coalition; IIRC, it only piled against revolutionary France later



ACtually, Slavery was abolished as one of the first actions of the revolution and there were black parliamentary from Haiti seated in Paris. It was Napolaon who reinstated slavery; that will not happen in this TL.

Declaration of War against Britain Feb. 1793

The Girondins were the initial force driving the revolution and its export initially... the jacobins Who were not yet the dominant force in politics preferred consolidation at home first

Otl both the Royalists and the Girondins fvoured the war against the Emigres and the Austrians but for entirely different reasons..

Here Louis will oppose the war and this goes forward as a Girondin project..Given the mediocre success of the initial stages they will lose some of their credibility. Given Louis position, no Brunswick manifesto, no storming of the Tuilieries.

Since Mirabeau remains a force of moderation longer, the Queen's plot is also never uncovered. the Feuillants remain an influential force while the revolution is in transition.

Belgium will have been occupied by 1792 and I think the Left bank by 1794
 
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