French pass through belgium

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Deleted member 1487

would the belgians resist a french attempt to pass through their country in ww1? What would have been the effect on their society and how would the british react?
 
would the belgians resist a french attempt to pass through their country in ww1? What would have been the effect on their society and how would the british react?

I don't follow the point of this thread. For one, the French, British, and the Belgians were allies during WWI. If you're postulating that the French try their own variant of the Schlieffen Plan, this would of course necessitate the Germans not trying the same thing themselves. In any case, the Belgians would be nuts to refuse French/British help in WWI, as a part of the front went straight through their nation.
 

MrP

Banned
You need to get rid of Henry Wilson for this. ;)

And several other Brits, too. It was made fairly clear by the government, and exceptionally clear by Wilson, that France could not violate Belgian neutrality. Since France wanted to attack within about 15 days of mobilisation (in concert with the Russians), this forced her to attack further south.

I don't see why the Belgians wouldn't resist an attempt if they aren't forewarned and pressured. IIRC, one of our Belgian members said that Belgians of the time were initially quite sympathetic to the CP because of the Archduke's shooting - before the Germans invaded and upset people by burning down Louvain, shooting civilians and so on.

Actually, I suppose you could have a scenario in which the Germans go East, the Brits stay out for some internal reason (Ireland's the usual), then the French either sit and wait or - following a failed attack into Alsace-Lorraine - attempt the route through Belgium (and perhaps south Holland), upsetting everyone. In fact, I believe that's Lord Insane's current TL.
 
I don't follow the point of this thread. For one, the French, British, and the Belgians were allies during WWI. If you're postulating that the French try their own variant of the Schlieffen Plan, this would of course necessitate the Germans not trying the same thing themselves. In any case, the Belgians would be nuts to refuse French/British help in WWI, as a part of the front went straight through their nation.
If the Schlieffen Plan didn't go into effect, Belgium would remain neutral.
And they wouldn't have the front in their country.
But it is more likely that the French would have asked, and the British would have put pressure on the Belgians to accept, that they be allowed to march through Belgium.
Of course, no Schlieffen=somewhat delayed British entry in war, as they must seek another casus belli to motivate the public.
 
Actually, I suppose you could have a scenario in which the Germans go East, the Brits stay out for some internal reason (Ireland's the usual), then the French either sit and wait or - following a failed attack into Alsace-Lorraine - attempt the route through Belgium (and perhaps south Holland), upsetting everyone. In fact, I believe that's Lord Insane's current TL.
Yes, more or less, that's it.
I had Italians-in-the-CP to put more pressure on the French, too, but that's just to increase the plausibility of a Invasion of Belgium (and to have more interesting 20s).
So I guess wiking could check out A Central East.
 
If it occurred before the German invasion, then I could see Belgium defending itself against French violation of its sovereignty. I think it had border fortresses facing the French border resembling the Liege network in the east. Also, wasn't the Belgian army positioned around Brussels, ready to strike out in either direction?
 

MrP

Banned
If it occurred before the German invasion, then I could see Belgium defending itself against French violation of its sovereignty. I think it had border fortresses facing the French border resembling the Liege network in the east. Also, wasn't the Belgian army positioned around Brussels, ready to strike out in either direction?

Yes, pretty much iun the Brussels area. The army concentrated in four areas. A division each at Antwerp, Liege and Namur, and the 1st, 2nd and 6th Divisions, and the Cavalry Division in the region Tirlement-Perwez-Louvain. The Antwerp, Liege and Namur forces were augmented by assorted fortress troops.

To quote the 1951 Encyc Brit (I forget how much of this is adapted for my TL, but the gist and technical details are precisely the same):

As already stated, Liége and Namur were not designed to withstand a regular siege, but consisted of a ring of forts (12 at Liége, 9 at Namur) which controlled the free use of the Meuse bridges, and marked a favourable line of battle. Constructed about 1890, these forts, of triangular or rectangular design, had vaulted casemates of 2m. 50-cm. Concrete and were completely out of date; they were armed with two 15-cm. guns in cupolas, two 12-cm. guns and two-21-cm. howitzers, besides some pom-poms in “éclipse” cupolas, all firing black powder.
 
It is my impression the Belgians denied the Germans passing trough Belgium because they didn't want to see their neutrality violated. I don't see why a French ultimatum would've been any different. And any less suicidal for the Belgians upon refusal.

And Belgians allied with France/Britain? They were on the same side. But Belgian soldiers were never under direct allied command.
 

MrP

Banned
It is my impression the Belgians denied the Germans passing trough Belgium because they didn't want to see their neutrality violated. I don't see why a French ultimatum would've been any different. And any less suicidal for the Belgians upon refusal.

And Belgians allied with France/Britain? They were on the same side. But Belgian soldiers were never under direct allied command.

I thought the chaps at Namur were under direct (albeit temporary, perhaps?) command after the fall of Namur. Though that's the Encyc Brit again, and although it's groovy, I don't regard it as infallible. ;)
 
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