French New Zealand

I've heard that one reason why the British took control of the island that would later be called New Zealand,was to stop a French advancement or interest in the area of the Pacific at that time. Would it be so far to imagine that France possibly could have beat England to the punch and claimed the north and south island first?

Could this have been done? If so,how would this change the relationship between British Australia and a French New Zealand? During colonial times,and after these regions "gain" their independence through decolonization?

Throw out all ideas for a French New Zealand..
 

Cook

Banned
More seriously I imagine that a French New Zealand’s history would be a large scale version of New Caledonia’s. Relations between Maori and settlers hasn’t (and isn’t I guess) always the best but it is considerably better then that between French Settlers and Kanaks over the years.

Trying to imagine an independent New Zealand with a majority that is ethnically descended from French settlers seems harder for some reason. Is there anywhere with a majority French settler population that has actually sought independence?
 

Cook

Banned
A French New Zealand that gains Independence pre WW1 will probably end up controlling French Polynesia.

I can see that happening. A Francophone nation from New Caledonia to Tahiti and south to Stewart Island.

But would they seek independence?
 
Okay, hold up.

By the time the French made any colonial interests in the area, the British were well-established. France couldn't have ever controlled both islands, probably only the south if they'd not made ridiculous decisions. French whalers were in the area around the same time as the British.

If you could somehow get the French there between 1642 and 1769 (between Abel Tasman's fatal visit and James Cook's more successful one) then maybe, yes, the French could get into it, but with the stories from Tasman's voyage? There's a reason they called Golden Bay Murderer's Bay back then. A group of Maori on a Waka came into the bay and slaughtered most of Tasman's crew while he hid in the rolled-up sail. The stories he brought back stopped Europeans from going there for over a hundred years.

The French involvement started in Akaroa in 1838, long after the British had settled New Zealand, two years before the British formed the Colony of New Zealand with the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840.

Aside from whaling stations (which nearly every country in Europe, and the USA, had built in NZ) only the British had made any permanent settlements simply by confiscating land off of the Maori or going to war (see Maori Land Wars if you ever get the chance).

The French always were far more Eurocentric than the British by a longshot and never had ideal relations with the Maori.

A French ship, Saint Jean Baptiste, belonging to one Jean Francois Marie de Surville passed within 20-30 miles of the Endeavour in 1769. He made anchor at Doubtless Bay and traded with the Maori, but after he discovered one of his boats missing he blamed them and went on a rampage. He even kidnapped a chief who had been hospitable to him (called Ranginui) who died of scurvy later on.

In 1771 Marion du Fresne and his fleet anchored in the Bay of Islands and as usual started out well with the Maori, but decided to fish in an area considered tapu (which is like, temporarily sacred due to someone dying there), which enraged the Maori. Their behaviours with the 'amorous' Maori women also spread veneral disease and even competed with the tribes fishing in other areas of the bay. Of course the Maori reacted by killing and eating Fresne and most of his crew.

So overall the French didn't have a lot to offer the Maori, in fact it was the opposite. The British, while making some mistakes (rarely to the extent of the French and usually by accident), were much more culturally friendly and open, realising that cooperation meant a bigger empire.

French New Zealand could not exist at this time, maybe earlier if you can somehow get the French to go before Cook and be nice to the locals. And not get eaten.
 

Cook

Banned
Picky picky picky Emperor!

I thought that Hobson was sent to New Zealand to grab it as part of the New South Wales Colony before the French could.
 
Noo. William Hobson was sent over because the British resident, James Busby, was fearing the tensions between settlers, tribes and other tribes. He suggested they start up trading factories like those in India and secure treaties with local tribes (kinda like the Princely states).

He was appointed Lieutenant-Governor by the Governor of New South Wales (who currently controlled NZ, more or less) and British consul to New Zealand. He was basically there to make the tensions between Maori, settlers and other Maori a lot less hostile.

He drafted and signed the Treaty of Waitangi, disbanded a republican party at Port Nicholson and forced the leader to pledge loyalty to the crown, and sent magistrates to Banks Peninsula (Akaroa area) to claim the land for the crown after a ship (l'Aube) sent by the French Nanto-Bordelaise Company for their settlement plan, was seen in the area.

He became Governor of New Zealand in 1841 after a royal charter in 1840 made it a Crown Colony, despite the republicans from Port Nicholson attempting to have him dismissed. He travelled to Akaroa to settle French claim, closed down the New Zealand Herald after they ridiculed his office for having trouble with the Maori, and then died of a stroke in 1842.
 

Cook

Banned
Busy Bugger wasn’t he!

So we are looking at a divided New Zealand then; French South and British North?

That sounds interesting.
:)
 
Possibly. It's hard to say how far the French could've gotten. They had relatively poor relations with the Maori, who by now are allied with the British in a united tribes act (ironically New Zealand's only document titled the declaration of independence) which recognised the tribes as the rulers of New Zealand.

If the French were less Eurocentric, not too proud to copy the British and capable of being fair when trading goods for land (the Maori on Banks Peninsula hardly had any European contact besides venereal disease from whalers), then maybe the French could've expanded. They illegally purchased all of Banks Peninsula for a ridiculously low price, and then the Maori wised up and things went sour.

Let's say the French make up their minds about NZ sooner. The British are entrenched in the North Island, the South is up for grabs...It's tempting, but dangerous territory. That's why it took them until 1840 to finally send a ship, at which point the Treaty of Waitangi had made New Zealand a colony and Hobson's magistrate was on its merry way to tell them to fuck off. Maybe if they hadn't been so hesitant, more French companies could've had some interest, a competitive market could arise for land in New Zealand, and then the French start up trading colonies and settlements along the eastern coast of the South Island from OTL's Dunedin to Akaroa.

It's doubtful they could ever have colonies on the Cook Strait. It was far too closely monitored by the British at Port Nicholson and other colonies.
 
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