French Falklands Style Intervention?

Archibald

Banned
In the Brazilian scenario (which seems the most likely to me) the French caribbean islands of Guadeloupe and Martinique would be used as a forward staging bases. Unlike RAF Ascencion-to-Falklands conudrum, the distance to Guyana is small enough the Armée de l'Air tactical force (FATAC) could strike with support from the C-135F tanker fleet. There are only 1000 miles between French caribbean and French guaina
Some Transalls NG also had air tanker capability, although tactical only.
 
IMHO the larger numbers of RN frigates and the RN advantage in attack submarines is a significant advantage to the RN.

I'd also suggest the French had no equivalent to the Seawolf SAM in this time frame. That being said the French automatic 57mm AA mounts had no RN equivalent.

The French carrier fleet is on paper at least more powerful than the RN force, but the sea harriers are newer than the French crusaders. The sea harriers can also be forward based and or refuled in a way the French air craft can't.

The French had a modest air born early warning capability but the RN had many more ships to use as radar pickets plus submarines that I seem to recall also provided some raid warnings via ELINT..

Looking at my copy of combat fleets of the world 1980/81 I'm also seeing a potential RN fleet train with several times the full load displacement of the French equivalent.

One can go on and on with these comparisons but I'm inclined to believe the French could have more or less achieved the same outcome as the RN but overall I doubt they had a clear superiorty over the RN.
I'm lost, is France fighting Britain now? If not, why aren't we comparing French kit to the likely combatants?
 
What would a French Falklands style intervention have looked like? For the purposes of this we'll assume it's either a conflict in the Caribbean (likely with Cuba) or a conflict over French Guiana, although a conflict with a stronger Madagascar over nearby islands would likely be closer to the Falklands experience.
Maybe French Guiana would be most likely a falkand style intervention

The country that takes French Guiana depends on what time period
 
Maybe French Guiana would be most likely a falkand style intervention

The country that takes French Guiana depends on what time period

Does anyone know at what time Guyana became explicitely covered by the French nuclear umbrella (currently it is). I think we'd better plan for a time before Paris made that pair of declarations. (1) we will use nukes when our strategic interests are threatened. 2) CSG is a French strategic interest)
 
In the Brazilian scenario (which seems the most likely to me) the French caribbean islands of Guadeloupe and Martinique would be used as a forward staging bases. Unlike RAF Ascencion-to-Falklands conudrum, the distance to Guyana is small enough the Armée de l'Air tactical force (FATAC) could strike with support from the C-135F tanker fleet. There are only 1000 miles between French caribbean and French guaina

Then this scenario is not really Falklands-esque because the distances are short enough to be 'easy' in comparison. Perhaps a perfect storm of things happen in the French Caribbean; natural disaster, riots/revolution, pandemic, infrastructure failures coincide with the unpleasantness in Guyana so at the time the French can't use these advanced bases.

France has 11 C-135F, not 4 (12 were bought in 1964 but one was lost in Mururoa in 1972)
Some Transalls NG also had air tanker capability, although tactical only.

You're right about the KC135 numbers and the Transalls, which have an IFR drum and reel in one of the main wheel fairing bulges, I think there are 10-15 although maybe some of those are 'fitted for but not with' the IFR gear. But how does that affect the Atlanitique force's ability to operate over vast distance, were they ever fitted with IFR gear? What's more the RAF used Vulcans and Hercules over the Falklands, can the Transall be stretched that far? I doubt the Mirage IV could be.
 
Does anyone know at what time Guyana became explicitely covered by the French nuclear umbrella (currently it is). I think we'd better plan for a time before Paris made that pair of declarations. (1) we will use nukes when our strategic interests are threatened. 2) CSG is a French strategic interest)
As far as I remember, French doctrine is also based on nuclear submarines being able to strike anytime from anywhere.

And Guyana is sovereign French territory, not like Nouvelle-Calédonie or Mayotte (until recently anyway). Especially with Kourou!
 

Archibald

Banned
Then this scenario is not really Falklands-esque because the distances are short enough to be 'easy' in comparison. Perhaps a perfect storm of things happen in the French Caribbean; natural disaster, riots/revolution, pandemic, infrastructure failures coincide with the unpleasantness in Guyana so at the time the French can't use these advanced bases.

You're right about the KC135 numbers and the Transalls, which have an IFR drum and reel in one of the main wheel fairing bulges, I think there are 10-15 although maybe some of those are 'fitted for but not with' the IFR gear. But how does that affect the Atlanitique force's ability to operate over vast distance, were they ever fitted with IFR gear? What's more the RAF used Vulcans and Hercules over the Falklands, can the Transall be stretched that far? I doubt the Mirage IV could be.

We have an understanding issue here. You want French Falklands, but such things doesn't exists (that's why I proposed the Brazilian scenario). The closest thing from a French Falklands are the Kerguelen islands, and they are 4000 km (2500 miles) away from the closest threat - South Africa.

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Ke...19f1226b6d4295!8m2!3d-49.1711165!4d69.6081625
 
We have an understanding issue here. You want French Falklands, but such things doesn't exists (that's why I proposed the Brazilian scenario). The closest thing from a French Falklands are the Kerguelen islands, and they are 4000 km (2500 miles) away from the closest threat - South Africa.

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Ke...19f1226b6d4295!8m2!3d-49.1711165!4d69.6081625

Yeah, given that all political scenario are as unlikely as each other I don't try to make them work. I'm still interested in the military capability though.
 
We have an understanding issue here. You want French Falklands, but such things doesn't exists (that's why I proposed the Brazilian scenario).
You know what, actually making the Falklands French isn't all that hard and gives you exactly that scenario. They were originally the Îles Malouines and a French colony, so if the French claim to them wasn't ceded to the Spanish in 1766 then you could see them remaining French down the years to today. That gives you a pretty much identical scenario - instead of Naval Party 8901 you have say a company of Legionnaires, but the results are much the same.
 
As far as I remember, French doctrine is also based on nuclear submarines being able to strike anytime from anywhere.

And Guyana is sovereign French territory, not like Nouvelle-Calédonie or Mayotte (until recently anyway). Especially with Kourou!

Does anyone know at what time Guyana became explicitely covered by the French nuclear umbrella (currently it is). I think we'd better plan for a time before Paris made that pair of declarations. (1) we will use nukes when our strategic interests are threatened. 2) CSG is a French strategic interest)

Well, Guyana is not a French sovereign territory and is not covered by their nuclear umbrella. Guyane is, but Guyana is not. Guyana is former British Guiana and is separated from Guyane by Suriname (former Dutch territory). Guyane is the French name for what we in English call French Guiana, which is the territory being talked about. But no where does anyone call that territory Guyana (at least not in English or French).
 
Well, Guyana is not a French sovereign territory and is not covered by their nuclear umbrella. Guyane is, but Guyana is not. Guyana is former British Guiana and is separated from Guyane by Suriname (former Dutch territory). Guyane is the French name for what we in English call French Guiana, which is the territory being talked about. But no where does anyone call that territory Guyana (at least not in English or French).
My bad, thought Guyana was the translation since it's basic suggestion on the autocorrect.
Guyane it is then.
 
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