French Canadians join the American Revolution

cw1865

I've done some reading on the American Revolution and I always find it fascinating that Quebec didn't, at the very minimum, align with the colonists against England. Particular after France herself got involved in the conflict.

I always wonder what would've happened if they had done so.

Nowadays if you suggest that Canada and the US should unite, the average Canadians would probably punch you in the nose, but 1776 is a different.

I've actually found VERY little on the position of the French speaking population of Canada, any insight on their view towards the Revolution would be illuminating and was an 'NAU' possible from the get go?
 
Either Quebec goes its own way and becomes an independent nation or it demands several concessions to the thirteen colonies to keep itself distinct from the others. The French Canadians though did not have much reason to rebel. They had a good deal with the Brits.
 
I've done some reading on the American Revolution and I always find it fascinating that Quebec didn't, at the very minimum, align with the colonists against England. Particular after France herself got involved in the conflict.

I always wonder what would've happened if they had done so.

Nowadays if you suggest that Canada and the US should unite, the average Canadians would probably punch you in the nose, but 1776 is a different.

I've actually found VERY little on the position of the French speaking population of Canada, any insight on their view towards the Revolution would be illuminating and was an 'NAU' possible from the get go?

Part of it was the Patriots' own anti-Catholicism, which wasn't helped by the Quebec Act. As for why the Canadiens didn't ally with the motherland that cut them loose for a few Caribbean islands in favor of a rather lenient imperial master... Well, that's exactly why.
 
It was because Quebec faced a greater danger from Boston than from London; they had bad relations before the Revolution, and the British sided with the French on some trade issues.
 
The Protestant/Catholicism divide makes sense to me but on the other hand, this wound has to be fresh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians

PLUS, France does join the fight.

True, but the Acadians were seen as distinct from the Lower Canadians/Quebecers. Again, as was mentioned earlier, Quebec didn't exactly have love for Mother France since she cut her loose and abandoned them for some islands in the sun. The British had a lenient imperial master (devil you know) but people seem to think joining the anti-Catholic Rebels(America, devil you don't know) would be so incredibly possible. It isn't. France abandoned Quebec. To this day, Quebecers still remember that and hate France for it. The abandonment issues were deeper than the expulsion. That's why they didn't join even though the French did.
 

cw1865

Articles of Confederation

From your screen name, can I assume that you are from Canada?

Canadians have probably heard a few references to Americans thinking that Canada should just as well become the 51st state. I am far from one of those people, I assure you, the reason I brought it up was this reference in the Articles of Confederation:

"Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the united States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States."

I also thought you might like this article on the Quebec Act [from the American perspective, one of the Intolerable Act]:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act#Participation_of_the_Canadians

From this excerpt, it appears the French population is relatively indifferent to the conflict altogether:

"My Lord ! I am sorry to transmit to Your Lordship the disagreeable account of a disagreeable Business, some time in the Beginning of this Month, upon news of the Rebel Army approaching, General Carleton set out for Montreal in great Haste; the 7th instant the Rebels landed in the Woods near St. John's, and beat back to their Boats by a Party of Savages incamped at that Place; in this Action the Savages behaved with great Spirit and Resolution, and had they remained firm to our Interests, probably the Province would have been safe for this Year, but finding the Canadians in General averse to the taking up Arms for the Defence of their Country, they withdrew, and made their Peace. After their Defeat the Rebels retired to the Isle aux Noix, where they continued till lately, sending out some Parties, and many Emissaries, to debauch the Minds of the Canadians and Indians, in which they have proved too successful, and for which they were too well prepared by the Cabals and Intrigues of these two last years; We knew of their being reinforced, and very considerably, I suppose, as they appeared in Numbers near St. John's last Sunday Evening; where or when they landed, or the Particulars since, we have but very imperfect Accounts of, all Communications with the Forts of St. John's and Chambli, being, as far as I can find, entirely cut off. No Means have been left untried to bring the Canadian Peasantry to a Sense of their Duty, and engage them to take up arms in Defence of the Province, but all to no Purpose. The Justice must be done to the Gentry, Clergy, and most of the Bourgeoisie, that they have shewen the greatest Zeal and Fidelity to the King's Service, and exerted their best endeavours to reclaim their infatuated Countrymen"
 
Weirder things have cropped in history, but there's plenty of good reasons for the French-Canadians not to have joined up with the Americans. The Thirteen Colonies at the time were pretty hostile to the French, as they'd spent the previous 100+ years raiding each other's frontier settlements and fighting intermittent wars.

There was a lot of fears among the French-Canadian population that the United States would absorb them. They'd also had a pretty agreeable governor (forget his name) and the Quebec Act was a great thing for keeping them in line. For Americans, the Quebec Act is up there with the Intolerable Acts- so go figure.

If you want the French engaged in any sort of American Revolution, it's probably going to have to come with no Quebec Act- or a mandatory Acadia-type situation where all French Canadians are forced to swear fealty and loyalty to the crown. No recognition of the Catholic religion as well might do it. A really oppressive governor would be necessary (death of the one they had probably). Overtures of potential Acadia-like ethnic cleansing wouldn't hurt their motivation (but that's dark stuff). There's no guarantee of complete unity in a situation like this though, and my gut tells me that French-Canadians would more likely fight alongside any Americans in revolt in a similar way that the Soviet Union and United States teamed up during WWII. I doubt it'd be palatable to the population for any sort of participation with the Thirteen Colonies beyond trade agreements and joint recognition of sovereignty, but I also wasn't there so :D.

But the problem with the above ^ is that these sorts of events would likely be supported by the Americans, which makes coming up with a reason to revolt harder. Not impossible, but a lot of Americans wanted those lands freed up for settlement (such as in Nova Scotia) and most were outraged when the French were given their equal rights etc.
 
Last edited:
Considering that a substantial portion of the troops involved in the notorious Battle of the Plains of Abraham of 1759 were in fact "Royal Americans", there's not that much love involved for Americans. As loyal Canadiens, they weren't getting involved in foreign wars.
 
I'd like to give points to almost everyone, especially our Canuck commenters, for being quite civil thus far since every time I see such a topic it inevitably has someone in rudeness or flames.

That and keeping polite on a always-being-done topic, though I always enjoy colonial/ARW topics and so can't complain. :p
 
Weirder things have cropped in history, but there's plenty of good reasons for the French-Canadians not to have joined up with the Americans. The Thirteen Colonies at the time were pretty hostile to the French, as they'd spent the previous 100+ years raiding each other's frontier settlements and fighting intermittent wars.
.

On the other hand, once the French joined the war we became bff. Francophillia was very strong into the 1790s; it was oreally only once the XYZ affair broke out that it tamed down.

And of course America had states with prominent Catholic leaders; most notably Maryland.
 
On the other hand, once the French joined the war we became bff. Francophillia was very strong into the 1790s; it was oreally only once the XYZ affair broke out that it tamed down.

And of course America had states with prominent Catholic leaders; most notably Maryland.

True to an extent. Francophilia was very widespread in the upper classes- which of course dominated the colonial government. I'm sure people like Ben Franklin had no quarrels whatsoever with helping out the French liberate themselves, if we assume the rebellion goes like OTL. However, the general population I believe is still going to remain very hostile to the French. Cultural memory of propaganda during the Seven Years' War (French-allied natives slaughtering innocent British women and children etc.) as well as a frontier wariness of wars with the French, etc. is going to entrench some distrust. Not everyone I'm saying, but it's going to be there.

I don't think the premise is impossible and I think one of the best ways to increase the chance of Canada and America being more friendly in the long term (Canada here is used in the sense of Francophone Canada/Quebec) is for them to fight during the American Revolution. However, I don't think that alone necessarily guarantees a happy North American Union where Canada makes up the 14th colony of the U.S. Even at a military level, I think it'd be more likely- just given geography and the way units were positioned IOTL, that Canadien and American troops to be fighting in their respective theatres with only a few units (if any) fighting alongside each other. Saratoga/Champlain Lake region seems like the best point for any sort of collaboration, but otherwise I think during a Revolutionary War they'd be parallel theatres (much like in WWII there was the Western/Eastern Front)- but you wouldn't necessarily see regiments of minutemen helping siege the British at Montreal or something :D.
 
Even if Quebec joins the ARW, and the AoC after, I doubt they accept the Constitution in 1789, and they go their own way post 1790.
 
Rhode Island didn't like the constitution either but they came around.

Unless they were willing to put language and religious guarantees into the constitution I doubt that Quebec would stick around.

Large elements of the French merchant and upper classes had returned to France after the conquest thus leaving the both the governmental and economic leadership of Quebec in British hands. The ordinary people turned to the Church as the one remaining Quebecois institution that would act as their champion. Merging with a Protestant nation esposuing the separation of church and state would not fly, period.

You may be able to rig some POD that would allow for Quebec to join the revolution though I think it very unlikely but to have Quebec join the new US without constitutional guarantees would be ASB. And probably ASB even with them. The Quebecois did not trust the Americans.
 
Unless they were willing to put language and religious guarantees into the constitution I doubt that Quebec would stick around.

Large elements of the French merchant and upper classes had returned to France after the conquest thus leaving the both the governmental and economic leadership of Quebec in British hands. The ordinary people turned to the Church as the one remaining Quebecois institution that would act as their champion. Merging with a Protestant nation esposuing the separation of church and state would not fly, period.

You may be able to rig some POD that would allow for Quebec to join the revolution though I think it very unlikely but to have Quebec join the new US without constitutional guarantees would be ASB. And probably ASB even with them. The Quebecois did not trust the Americans.

True enough, but I think if they were given autonomy and if we assume that everything goes great in that: a) A very hostile governor of Canada (like in the Dominion of Southern America or w/e TL) exists, b) American leadership gives lots of overtures to the French it's not totally implausible that they might consider going into the union. The problem is long-term settlement and land-claims. I think, barring major concessions by the Americans (plausible but would be very bad for the public) you'd end up with a second revolution- quiet or violent, with an independent Canada popping up. Would be interesting at any rate.
 

Eurofed

Banned
In my own two TL variants of the idea, my signature one and the collaborative VLR one with Aranfan, we have Canada join the 13 colonies because a chain of events (a minor rebellion in Canada, and a accident fire that is misinterpreted in Britain as Canadian terrorism) leads the British Parliament to pass a Quebec Act that is just as oppressive to Canadians as the other Intolerable Acts are to the 13 colonies. Canadian Catholics are burdened with the same legal penalties that the Irish ones got, and the Ohio Valley is given to the Hudson Bay Company, which PO all the 15 colonies (including Nova Scotia) a lot. Angered at seeing all his hard work at keeping his colony peaceful undone at a stroke, Quebec Governor Carleton decides to join the Patriots (this is actually not strictly necessary, but I liked Carleton as a Founding Father).

After the American Revolution is victorious, Quebec representatives at the Constitutional Convention are able to get guarantees for their language and religion written in the Constitution (which is written in English and French version), and Canada is happy with becoming one of the 15 founding states.

In my honest strong opinion, this is all that is necessary to get the 15 colonies into an lasting marriage. Expectations of irreconciliable reciprocal hostility between French Catholic and English/German Protestant colonists in the 1770s-1790s are often vastly overrated by hindsight.
 
In my own two TL variants of the idea, my signature one and the collaborative VLR one with Aranfan, we have Canada join the 13 colonies because a chain of events (a minor rebellion in Canada, and a accident fire that is misinterpreted in Britain as Canadian terrorism) leads the British Parliament to pass a Quebec Act that is just as oppressive to Canadians as the other Intolerable Acts are to the 13 colonies. Canadian Catholics are burdened with the same legal penalties that the Irish ones got, and the Ohio Valley is given to the Hudson Bay Company, which PO all the 15 colonies (including Nova Scotia) a lot. Angered at seeing all his hard work at keeping his colony peaceful undone at a stroke, Quebec Governor Carleton decides to join the Patriots (this is actually not strictly necessary, but I liked Carleton as a Founding Father).

After the American Revolution is victorious, Quebec representatives at the Constitutional Convention are able to get guarantees for their language and religion written in the Constitution (which is written in English and French version), and Canada is happy with becoming one of the 15 founding states.

In my honest strong opinion, this is all that is necessary to get the 15 colonies into an lasting marriage. Expectations of irreconciliable reciprocal hostility between French Catholic and English/German Protestant colonists in the 1770s-1790s are often vastly overrated by hindsight.

Heh, I think I remember disagreeing with you on this in the past (although not on all things). I agree that the idea that somehow French Catholics and English/German protestants being irreconcilable is silly, given that Lafayette achieved so much popularity throughout the U.S. as a freedom fighter/general and he himself was Catholic, French, an aristocrat, very wealthy and a monarchist :D.

However, I disagree that Canada could just easily integrate and once they've gotten through the war, everything just smooths itself out. A war that brings Americans and Canadiens together could really help out in forging strong ties between the states, and it may be that Canada remains with the United States in a long-term relationship.

However, I think the unique situation of Canada compared to the rest of the United States necessitates autonomy, which could have very interesting implications for future states (I'm thinking slave states here..) Assuming Canada participates in the writing of the constitution, I think if Canada is given less autonomy- particularly in religious and linguistic matters, there's going to be conflict. Any English settlement of Canadian lands- and you'll be there'll be some, would ultimately cause friction between communities- not all, but just natural linguistic friction. If English is used as the "legal tender" of languages that's also going to create problems, and unlike OTL Canada is not going to be bound by having been beaten in the past or standing up to a massive colonial power: they're up against 13+ individual colonies united in an at-the-time somewhat fragile union with a precarious situation in the international realm :D. If they can rebel against Britain why not the United States (if they're willing to stamp all over the freedoms they want). *To clarify that statement, I mean in the sense that Canada/Quebec has consistently fought for linguistic rights in the past, so if they were to be continually denied or impeded here, there would definitely be a growth of emnity and frustration which would be far less "contained" so to speak than OTL. So, I think autonomy is an important factor in any long-term participation of Canada in the United States.

Walls of texts aside, I think any union is completely variable on what's offered, how's its offered, how it's implemented and whether it can be sustained. I think autonomy creates plenty of problems as does less autonomy, but neither axes any long-term relationship between Canada(Quebec) and the States. But it's far from a given. *If a great deal of autonomy is given to Canada it would have interesting implications in the future for states wanting further autonomy and state rights i.e. the slave states :eek: something to think about definitely..
 
Last edited:
Would a more secure union be made more likely if after losing all of their North American territory Britain decided to be a jerk and impede Atlantic trade as revenge?
 
Top