French Brazil?

Fearless Leader · Sep 14, 2004

Allright I just recently came across an interesting POD in a book of mine. Anyhow I faintly remembered Faeelin posting something about it and so after a little searching I came up with this...

Faeelin said:
In 1555, the french set up a colony on the site of OTL rio de janero. It was doing pretty wel, but its governor, Villegagnon, started acting like a general jackass, causing people to flee. Reports of his attitude actually cancelled an expedition of 900 people, which would have let the french hold on to the area and outnumber the portuguese in the region. (northern brazil is probably out, though).

The portuguese probably, in turn, appeal to the pope, who protests at their violation of the treaty of tordesailles, which, in turn, upsets the french businesses.

How does a colony that's part hugenot, part catholic, proudly french, effect the development of the area? And how does the pope's protest effect the religious wars.

Allright but lets put a different Spin on this POD...

Ok, the dude in charge of setting up the French colonies was Admiral Gaspard de Coligny although the spelling could be slightly different.

Now lets say that instead of picking Villegagnon (who was chosen BTW because of his renown in battle and NOT for his administrative skill) Coligny picks a capable Huguenot administrator.

Also a fact not presented in Faeelins account is that Villegagnon positioned his colony on a island off the coast of Rio which had no fresh water supply and relied completely on the trade with the natives which were quickly driven away by Villegagnons jackass-ness. Lets suppose that his hypothetical replacement is a tad bit smarter...

Allright now Coligny's main goals for colonization were 3 fold

1. To create a haven for his co-religionists...
2. To break Portugals and Spain's hold on the New world
3. To increase the wealth of France

Allright so now its 1555 and we have a well supplied well positioned Co-religionist French colony on the site of Rio de Janiero establishing a prosperous trade with the natives.

Consider the following
-French traders maintained a signifigant presence in the region WITHOUT crown help until 1603 when the combined Spanish/Portuguese drove them out. How would they faire?

-Coligny after the failure in Brazil tried to establish several colonies in Florida all of which failed due to natural or Spanish causes. I'm assuming he would screw Florida and focus on consolidating French South America. Where would he locate the other settlements (Remember during this time period the French dominated the area from Cape Frio- Rio de Janiero.)

-The French were notorious at supplying and aiding natives to achieve their goals. How would French Armed Natives affect the Portuguese colonies (They equipped some in OTL moreso in TTL)

-Coligny was a Huguenot would the fact that he established Frances only real hold in the America's spare him from the St. Bartholemews Massacre. Would the Huguenot colonial success lessen the devastation of the War of Religion?

-Would France use Brasil as a dumping ground for Huguenots? Demanding of course that the Huguenots swear loyalty to the crown before colonising? If so this creates an interesting scenario further down the line

-Assuming that the French manage to gain a substaintial foothold in SA and abandon all claims on the Frigid north called Canada. Who would dominate the region with its furs the Dutch or the English? The Former presents a very interesting possibility....

-Could a French Brasil set off an earlier war between France and Spain? If so how would it go?

Just some things to think about...

Fearless Leader · Sep 15, 2004

Nobody have any thoughts on the subject?

Guilherme Loureiro · Sep 15, 2004

Can I wait until the weekend? University hell has returned, so I'm not able to dedicate that much time to thinking about this one.

Melvin Loh · Sep 16, 2004

quote: The French were notorious at supplying and aiding natives to achieve their goals. How would French Armed Natives affect the Portuguese colonies (They equipped some in OTL moreso in TTL)

Just FYI, so did the Portuguese when they colonised Brazil, by co-opting and arming certain tribes to fight others (as per THE MISSION).

Guilherme Loureiro · Sep 16, 2004

Melvin Loh said:
quote: The French were notorious at supplying and aiding natives to achieve their goals. How would French Armed Natives affect the Portuguese colonies (They equipped some in OTL moreso in TTL)

Just FYI, so did the Portuguese when they colonised Brazil, by co-opting and arming certain tribes to fight others (as per THE MISSION).

Also, much(if not most) of the fight for Rio de Janeiro was waged by the allied tribes of both sides.

yofie · Sep 20, 2004

French Brazil sounds like a very interesting alternative history. I have a question, though: Would Britain have tried to invade Brazil in the late 1700s and early 1800s if Brazil had been colonized by the French? I know that Britain had taken over all of the French colonies in North America in 1763, and that Britain tried, with varying degrees of success, to conquer the colonies of France and its allies (e.g. Netherlands, Spain) during the Napoleonic Wars. Do you think it would have worked?

Faeelin · Sep 20, 2004

A successful hugenot colony in latin america will have huge effects far before then.

Imagine a France which goes for naval supremacy rather than European, for instance.

Hierophant · Sep 20, 2004

I think your French Brazil (Or Antartique) would resemble South Africa in many ways. Also if the Huguenots colonize Brazil they wont be moving to Prussia, were they helped build the core of Prussian militarism. So basically a Badass French Military State in South America that fairly to extremely racist.

Fearless Leader · Sep 20, 2004

OK I would be posting the first part of a timeline right now if it was still summer time but its not so you guy's will have to wait...

Right now I'm looking at the beginnings of French Brasil so any information or ideas on how this POD would develop from 1555-1600 would be greatly appreciated...

Guilherme Loureiro · Sep 20, 2004

I had a busier than expected weekend. Oh, well.

OK, when the French came to Guanabara Bay, the Portuguese weren't paying much attention to that part of the country. While the first city founded in Brazil(SÃ£o Vicente, in what is now SÃ£o Paulo State) was in the southeast, the Portuguese were directing the largest parts of their efforts to the northeast, centered in Salvador. It was after the Portuguese expelled the French from Rio de Janeiro that the area gained some importance.

The best bet for the POD is not having Villegaignon as leader, as was pointed before. Assuming someone better suited for task estabilishes the Antartic France colony, and it is located at a better place than the OTL colony, much of the early story doesn't change that much; the French ally themselves with some tribes, while the Portuguese enlist the rival tribes to their side, and the guerilla war starts(IIRC, the French colony endured some 10 years before being crushed, 1557-1567, with the conflict moving on to the endgame with the foundation of SÃ£o SebastiÃ£o do Rio de Janeiro in 1565 by EstÃ¡cio de SÃ¡, nephew of the Governor-General of Brazil at the time).

What they teach us in school is pretty vague, so I don't know many details of that part of the conflict. Therefore, I'm going to assume again; say EstÃ¡cio de SÃ¡ is killed by an arrow as in OTL, but the larger numbers of French, as well as Indian allies, drive the Portuguese away. The Portuguese are bound to come back; they have a town where they can start preparations for the comeback(SÃ£o Vicente), and an excellent natural harbour where they can build another town, one that would be a staging ground for future invasions(the Sepetiba Bay/Ilha Grande area; the eastern shores of that bay are nowadays part of Rio de Janeiro county, even though it is some 50-60 kilometres away from Guanabara Bay). The French would try to trade with the tribes that inhabited the other side of Guanabara Bay, where the cities of NiterÃ³i and SÃ£o GonÃ§alo are nowadays(they did that in OTL).

That's where the TL hits a snag: the Portuguese have bases closer to the area than the French do. They also have more men in the area. I really think it's hard for the Huguenots to overcome these advantages and avoid the fate of the OTL colony.