French and German plans for after WW1

Seraphiel

Banned
What exactly were the French amd German plans for each other if they got a quick or total victory in World War One?
 
I think the French wanted to break up Germany again, and above all get Alsace-Lorraine back.
I'm not sure about Germany's goals. Probably a cutting down of the French military, maybe some tiny map changes, and reparations.
 
Well, you didn't had real plans in 1914, but both french and germans had some ideas of war goal.

The ones listed there are issued from "Les négociations secrètes pendant la grande guerre" by Guy Pedrocini. Remember, that's askings or ideas from cabinets and nothing really that official.

Germany
As defined by Bethmann-Hollweg:
-Trade union à la Zollvrein under the direction of Germany with France, Belgium, Netherlands, Danemark, Austria-Hungary
-Annexation of (basically) Lorraine (especially Briey and Longwy), Hauts-de-Meuse, coast between Dunkerque and Boulogne
-Sattelization of Belgium (or even annexation)
-Annexation of Luxemburg
-Annexation of Belgian Congo
-Buffer state between Germany and Russia

In 1915-1916, the defeats forced Germans goals to be a bit lowered
-Annexation of Liege if sattelization of Belgium impossible
-While annexations in France still searched, possibility of giving France a bit of Alsace back for allowing and acess to Rhine
-No mention of annexation of french Flanders

England
-Limit naval power of Germany
-Withdraw of Germany from Belgium and refuse of annexations

Austria-Hungary
-Creation of a polish kingom ruled by AH

Karl I seems to have abandoned this claim

Russia
-Turkish Straits and Constantinople (who said "as usual"?)

France
Up to 1915/1916
-Annexation of Alsace-Moselle

After G.Q.G studies on goal of wars
-Annexation of Sarre
-Autonomy or independence of Rheinland (more or less abandoned in 1917 if guarantee are given)

Italy
-Annexation of Trieste and Istria
-Annexation of south Tyrol
-Annexation of Dalmatia
-Protectorate on Albania (at least around Durazzo/Dürres)

Hopes it helps!
 
Actually, I made a map with what could have represented a total german victory in the west some years ago.

Anno_1916___Germany_by_LSCatilina.png
 
It might also help to picture the considerations / strategic goals behind the various shoping lists. As I understand them they were:

France:
Wants revanche for 1870 but knows that alone it is weaker than Germany and therefore has to preserve and exploit its alliance with Russia (and bring England in too).
-> Retake A-L and weaken Germany enough to prevent it from possing a threat in the future.

Germany:
Made overconfident by past victories and economic success.
At the same time feels encircled by enemies and politically isolated.
Wants to solve this by another war and also feels the need to protect its last remaining ally A-H.
Wants an outcome that further increases Germanies power and prestige. At the same time except for Briey there is little left to annex that would actually make sense (= economic benefits bigger than demographic problems).
Therefore alternately pondering megalomanic anexation programs and vague "economic domination of area xyz" plans.
Plans directed to the east where less controversial with the Germna left as they could be markted asfighting evil czarism.

A-H:
Defuse some of the nationality problems. Easier said than done.
->Destroy Serbia. Create an independent Poland under a Habsburg king. Annex as little as possible or "everything".

Italy:
Liberate the remaining Italian lands under Austrian rule.
Conquer as much as possible of the ancient Venetian & Genuese Empires

Russia:
Desperate need for success after losing against Japan. Vague Panslavinism

UK:
Keep its position as the decesive controller of the balance of power in Europe. Prevent Germany from getting stronger.
->Destroy the German fleet. Have neither Germany nor France completly smashed.


Everybody wanted to, where possible, expand the colonial empire, but in general that consideration was secondary.
 
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