French Alsace and Lorraine Question

I am not sure if ANY different peace treaty even without annexations (Europe or elsewhere) could have made the German Empire and France firends.


I agree, but a less hostile France was possible.


The "better" sitiuation would have been even MORE annexations - at least Belfort, but also the whole of Meurthe and Moselle departements and if you want to get on the save side also Vosges and Meuse.

Yes, actually IMO a compromise (the outcome IOTL 1871) is not allways the best solution. Taking Belfort + the Vogessen mountains would have given Germany a much more better defensive position.

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...lsass-Lothr.jpg&filetimestamp=20080405191858&

IN addition the establishment of the "Reichsland" itself was a mistake. Alsace (Elsass) should have been included into Baden and Lorraine (Lothringen) to the Bavarian Palatinate - this would faciliate the "assimilation of those territories).

That is a very good point! Elsass, Baden and Bavaria were both populated mainly by Catholics, Prussia was not.

Regarding Sedanstag - well I think its basically something a victorious nation will do: the Allies still celebrate D-Day (not officially) or V-day Europe or the end of the First World War - (France: Mai 8th - Nov 11th). US : Veterans Day (Nov 11th ;)) Russia Victory day. Of course only "revanchists" would feel offended ;)

Well yes true. Maybe another celebration day would have been smarter nevertheless - lets say: "Day of German re-unification". Then the emphasis would have been on Germanys unity and not on the French defeat.


1) During the 1871-1914 period, 600,000 Alsatian or Mosellans left Elsass-Lothringen. That's nearly 40% of the 1871 population (1,600,000). Not all of them went to France, but a lot did and they formed what was called the Alsatian disapora, which was VERY anti-german. This was not a one-off thing but a continuously reinforced one (only about 100,000 alsatians left in the first year, IIRC), bringin to life the stories of prussian yoke.

Good point! But the numbers were somewhat lower.
Actually only 50.000 Alsatian left Elsass-Lothringen right after the war (3,2%), although 160.000 opted to stay French - so 2/3 of them stayed in Germany.

One reason for immigration afterwards was to avoid military service. BTW after WWII some Germans moved to Westberlin to avoid military service :D

Another, and i suppose more important one, were simply economic reasons - the USA was quite alluring at the end of the 19th century.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsland_Elsaß-Lothringen#Die_Optanden

2) The prussian administration of Elsass-Lothringen was widly inconsistent. While some administrators were trying to woo the alsacians to the Reich (esp in the first years, e.g. creation of the University of Strasbourg - which actually backfired badly ), some were for applying prussian rigors and punishments. All that was reported in french press and through the diaspora.

I suppose this point was pivotal. The suggestion made by Richter von Manthofen (unification of Elasass with Baden) would have changed the situation significantly.

And the Alsacian delegates were not seated as voting members of the Reichstag until 1913.

Well thats not right. Alsace-Lorraine was not granted autonomy until 1911, but of course they had the right to participate in general German elections (Reichstag).

The support for regional Alsatian parties was overwhelming during the first decades but was diminishing afterwards, although the Prussians were harsh and granted autonomy only just prior to WWI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#Reichstag_election_results_1874.E2.80.931912
 
Not wanting to nitpick, although 160.000 Alsatians and "Lorrainer"( around 10% of the population) "opted" to stay french only about 50.000 of them (3% of population) actually left in the first year. 400.000 (did not find a source on short notice) that left 1871-1914 (43 years) - well thats not surprising because GErmany as a whole was - at least until the 1890s an emigrating country. I admit to escape military duty might have been a motive, but I think economic reasions might have been a stronger motive...

Just to compare in 1919 around 200.000 persons (1,8 Million in 1910 - no newer number, but I assume that as Germany had lost 2 Million from 1910-1917, the population will not be "biggier") had to leave (forced emmigration) thats almost 11% - 100.000 were allowed to return later...

Does not seem the French wee any "wiser" than the Germans in 1871 ;)
 
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