Frederick the great hold the electorate of saxony after 7yw ?

From what i understand , Frederick II of Prussia could have gain the electorate of Saxony during the seven years war. Was it possible at all ? In that case what would have been the consequence of such gain ?
 

raharris1973

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From what i understand , Frederick II of Prussia could have gain the electorate of Saxony during the seven years war. Was it possible at all ? In that case what would have been the consequence of such gain ?

uncontrolled glee-

-a stronger economic powerbase for Prussia.

-a possible continuation of the Wettins on the Polish throne, with partition possibly butterflied away.
 
From what i understand in a quite older thread yes it was possible , and yes i was asking because the consequence of the future could be different. As for Poland the Hohenzollern in that case would probably take west prussia and at worst the posen area only.
 
no one wanted a stronger Prussia. Not Britain, Russia, Austria, or France. Britain did it's part by dropping out and cutting subsidies. Although R, A, and F were all exhausted, they weren't going to let Prussia make out too well. Frederick knew he was alone in the world, was darn lucky to even have a kingdom left, wasn't really in all that great shape, and would have had to continue on the offensive to take the parts of Saxony not under his control. He knew when to say when.

It's possible he could have gotten Saxony. It's also possible he runs out of lives in trying to get it. Can't speak to the specifics, but if he did get it, obviously Prussia is a lot stronger. And that upsets the apple cart regarding balance of power, which no one is going to stand for, for very long. France and Austria plot on recasting the power balance. Maybe France decides to concentrate on Europe instead of intriguing in the American revolution.
 
From what i understand in a quite older thread yes it was possible , and yes i was asking because the consequence of the future could be different. As for Poland the Hohenzollern in that case would probably take west prussia and at worst the posen area only.

Can you get that thread?
 
Britain did not drop out and cut subsidies to Prussia because of some strategic aim to weaken her ally. She did it due to domestic political machinations. It was more a passive 'Britain first and ignore the continental implications' thinking than anything else.
 
For Prussia to gain Saxony, she would have to win the war. Which is far harder than it sounds. Unlike in the War of the Austrian Succession, Prussia does not any advantage in generalship or in quality of troops due to the fact that this time France is an enemy and Austria has had significant military reforms.
 
Basically ASB. We're talking about the unilateral annexation of one of the Imperial Electorates, a major breach of the Imperial constitution and something that had yet to occur at this point in history: the disappearance of a sovereign state. If one thing could unite Germany behind Austria its this. Friedrich would have to be crazy to attempt this and the rest of Europe would be crazier to accept it.
 
Basically ASB. We're talking about the unilateral annexation of one of the Imperial Electorates, a major breach of the Imperial constitution and something that had yet to occur at this point in history: the disappearance of a sovereign state. If one thing could unite Germany behind Austria its this. Friedrich would have to be crazy to attempt this and the rest of Europe would be crazier to accept it.
What about annexing most of it such that Saxony still exists but as a rump state?
 
Britain did not drop out and cut subsidies to Prussia because of some strategic aim to weaken her ally. She did it due to domestic political machinations. It was more a passive 'Britain first and ignore the continental implications' thinking than anything else.

I agree to an extent. Britain was broke, and had already gotten everything it wanted out of the war. While they didn't set out to weaken Prussia, they also had no interest in seeing them strengthened either, which could only happen if Britain gave aid. The aid given so far had served the purpose of tying down France in Europe, but now France was obviously going to lose to Britain. So everything combined to make it an easy choice to drop out.
 
What about annexing most of it such that Saxony still exists but as a rump state?

Legally speaking it is possible, but realistically it would never happen. Prussia was not strong enough to fend off against France, Austria, and Russia. Nor was it strong enough to defeat Austria by itself, as seen with the failed invasion of Bohemia.

I agree to an extent. Britain was broke, and had already gotten everything it wanted out of the war. While they didn't set out to weaken Prussia, they also had no interest in seeing them strengthened either, which could only happen if Britain gave aid. The aid given so far had served the purpose of tying down France in Europe, but now France was obviously going to lose to Britain. So everything combined to make it an easy choice to drop out.

By the time Britain concluded the war, Prussia was in no position to come out on top. By then Prussia had been thoroughly thrashed and was only saved by the fact that Russia quit the war. So it makes little sense to assume that Britain left the war in some political move to prevent Prussia from becoming stronger, when at that point Prussia was barely breaking even in the war, even with massive British subsidies.
 
Legally speaking it is possible, but realistically it would never happen. Prussia was not strong enough to fend off against France, Austria, and Russia. Nor was it strong enough to defeat Austria by itself, as seen with the failed invasion of Bohemia.



By the time Britain concluded the war, Prussia was in no position to come out on top. By then Prussia had been thoroughly thrashed and was only saved by the fact that Russia quit the war. So it makes little sense to assume that Britain left the war in some political move to prevent Prussia from becoming stronger, when at that point Prussia was barely breaking even in the war, even with massive British subsidies.

To be fair, Prussia was newly resurgent since Russia dropped out the war and also provided troops for Prussia. But yes, Prussia was only just achieving Great Power status, and was Protestant, so not a major worry for Britain at this time. And the main reason for the dropping out was George III's accession bringing Tory foreign policy views to power.
 
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With British backing Prussia might have gotten Saxony. France was a historical enemy of Austria not Prussia. Prussia and Russia were sometimes allies and sometimes foes. Austria would not be happy but Saxony was not Austrian territory like Bohemia. Frederick would need to mollify the feeling of the Saxon aristocracy which were estranged when Frederick failed to incorporate the officers of the Saxon army into the Prussian army
 
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