franz Jospeh and elisabeth have more sons

So after a long day visiting the hofburg and marvelling st how fucking big it is-that’s what she said- I’ve started wondering, what consequences might there have been if instead of having just the one son Franz Joseph and Elisabeth had three. Rudolf being his otl self, Stephen being more like his father, and Francis being a mixture of conservative and liberal.

Bonus query if during all this rudolf had a son from his marriage also.

Thoughts?
 
So after a long day visiting the hofburg and marvelling st how fucking big it is-that’s what she said- I’ve started wondering, what consequences might there have been if instead of having just the one son Franz Joseph and Elisabeth had three. Rudolf being his otl self, Stephen being more like his father, and Francis being a mixture of conservative and liberal.

Bonus query if during all this rudolf had a son from his marriage also.

Thoughts?

Would Stef and Franzl be Gisela and Valeria just born males? Or would the two daughters still be around (personally I like that option):

• SOPHIE Friederike Dorothea Marie Josefa (b.1855, d.1857)
• GISELA Luise Marie (b. 1856)
• RUDOLF Franz Karl Josef (b. 1858)
• Karl STEFAN Maximilian Viktor (b.1859)
• FRANZ Ferdinand Ludwig Ernst (b. 1863)
• Maria VALERIE Mathilde Amalie (b. 1868)
 
Would Stef and Franzl be Gisela and Valeria just born males? Or would the two daughters still be around (personally I like that option):

• SOPHIE Friederike Dorothea Marie Josefa (b.1855, d.1857)
• GISELA Luise Marie (b. 1856)
• RUDOLF Franz Karl Josef (b. 1858)
• Karl STEFAN Maximilian Viktor (b.1859)
• FRANZ Ferdinand Ludwig Ernst (b. 1863)
• Maria VALERIE Mathilde Amalie (b. 1868)

I was thinking keeping the two daughters around.
 
Would Stef and Franzl be Gisela and Valeria just born males? Or would the two daughters still be around (personally I like that option):

• SOPHIE Friederike Dorothea Marie Josefa (b.1855, d.1857)
• GISELA Luise Marie (b. 1856)
• RUDOLF Franz Karl Josef (b. 1858)
• Karl STEFAN Maximilian Viktor (b.1859)
• FRANZ Ferdinand Ludwig Ernst (b. 1863)
• Maria VALERIE Mathilde Amalie (b. 1868)

Who would be considered for Karl and Franz?
 
If we're being boring and limiting butterflies:
Rudolf marries Maria Antonietta of Tuscany (maybe his dad's less of a douche about it)
Stef can marry Maria Teresa (or one of her sisters) of Bragança (personally I think a granddaughter of Maria II, like a princess of Saxony might work better).
Franzl will be least important so might get a lesser princess from somewhere (possibly even one who has to convert).

As to the people left without brides:
Stephanie of Belgium to Alfonso XII of Spain
Archduke Karl Ludwig to a Savoyard princess maybe (the Austro-Italian marriage agreement fell flat due to Archduchess Mathilde of Teschen's secret smoking habit; so if that still happens, I could see Austria and Italy wanting to fix bridges. I'd suggest Margherita of Savoy-Genoa, but her married to Carol I of Romania (who she rebuffed OTL) might be fun to see). If no Savoyards are around, then I'm not sure. Hell, he might not need to remarry since he's got two sons already.
Archduke Otto (if Stef pilfers his half-Portuguese Saxon wife) might have different prospects what with the imperial succession looking more secure.
Maria Mercedes de Borbon y Orléans - she was sickly IIRC so she might die before a decent groom is found if Alfonso goes with Stephanie (when he was scouting for an Austrian wife OTL, he privately told one of his friends that he would've preferred to marry Maria Christine's MOTHER to the daughter (gotta love those Spanish royals and their incest:) )
Maria Christine of Teschen - either marries to Franzl (like I said, his marriage will be dynastic but not necessarily more than a minor blip on the int'l scene), or becomes a nun as she wanted to.
 
If we're being boring and limiting butterflies:
Rudolf marries Maria Antonietta of Tuscany (maybe his dad's less of a douche about it)
Stef can marry Maria Teresa (or one of her sisters) of Bragança (personally I think a granddaughter of Maria II, like a princess of Saxony might work better).
Franzl will be least important so might get a lesser princess from somewhere (possibly even one who has to convert).

As to the people left without brides:
Stephanie of Belgium to Alfonso XII of Spain
Archduke Karl Ludwig to a Savoyard princess maybe (the Austro-Italian marriage agreement fell flat due to Archduchess Mathilde of Teschen's secret smoking habit; so if that still happens, I could see Austria and Italy wanting to fix bridges. I'd suggest Margherita of Savoy-Genoa, but her married to Carol I of Romania (who she rebuffed OTL) might be fun to see). If no Savoyards are around, then I'm not sure. Hell, he might not need to remarry since he's got two sons already.
Archduke Otto (if Stef pilfers his half-Portuguese Saxon wife) might have different prospects what with the imperial succession looking more secure.
Maria Mercedes de Borbon y Orléans - she was sickly IIRC so she might die before a decent groom is found if Alfonso goes with Stephanie (when he was scouting for an Austrian wife OTL, he privately told one of his friends that he would've preferred to marry Maria Christine's MOTHER to the daughter (gotta love those Spanish royals and their incest:) )
Maria Christine of Teschen - either marries to Franzl (like I said, his marriage will be dynastic but not necessarily more than a minor blip on the int'l scene), or becomes a nun as she wanted to.


Ooh I,like that, could rudolf and his ttl wife actually have a son then do you think?

Stef to a Saxon princess works

Franz to Maria Christine sounds good also.

And Alfonso to Stephanie sounds like a fun match
 
So after a long day visiting the hofburg and marvelling st how fucking big it is-that’s what she said- I’ve started wondering, what consequences might there have been if instead of having just the one son Franz Joseph and Elisabeth had three. Rudolf being his otl self, Stephen being more like his father, and Francis being a mixture of conservative and liberal.

Bonus query if during all this rudolf had a son from his marriage also.

Thoughts?
So is better saying Franz Joseph never marry Elisabeth but instead he follow his mother’s plan and marry his original intended bride Helene (who was Elisabeth’s older sister)
 
So is better saying Franz Joseph never marry Elisabeth but instead he follow his mother’s plan and marry his original intended bride Helene (who was Elisabeth’s older sister)

How so, would she have bene more suited to imperial life?
 
How so, would she have bene more suited to imperial life?
Absolutely yes. Helene was the ideal bride and was trained for becoming Empress and her personality and temperament were the right ones for the role while Elisabeth was really unsuited for that
 
Absolutely yes. Helene was the ideal bride and was trained for becoming Empress and her personality and temperament were the right ones for the role while Elisabeth was really unsuited for that

Intriguing, I suppose the question then arises, how can one convince Franz to go for her and not her sister
 
Intriguing, I suppose the question then arises, how can one convince Franz to go for her and not her sister
Easy. Either Franz Joseph do not remain so enchanted by Elisabeth at their first meeting or the girl do not travel with her mother and sister for any reason
 
Easy. Either Franz Joseph do not remain so enchanted by Elisabeth at their first meeting or the girl do not travel with her mother and sister for any reason

Hmm that would make sense, or perhaps Franz simply finds Helen more intriguing after the first meeting?
 
Hmm that would make sense, or perhaps Franz simply finds Helen more intriguing after the first meeting?
Er. IIRC part of the "perfectly suited as Empress" thing that Helene had was that she was less... excitable. And exciting. Which was (again, IIRC) what drew Franz to Elisabeth.
 
Hmm that would make sense, or perhaps Franz simply finds Helen more intriguing after the first meeting?

Problematic. Since FJ didn't exactly take to Helene. IIRC both were tongue-tied and awkward in each other's company, and while Helene was suitably pious and was everyone's (read: Archduchess Sophie's) first choice for empress, FJ found her uninspiring. Part of the reason that Sophie and Sisi didn't get on was because a) she was a constant reminder to Sophie of her son thwarting her; and b) she was unsuited to court life.

I'm with @isabella and @colleoni on this. If you don't want FJ to marry Sisi instead of Helene bring her with to Bad Ischl. AFAIR Sisi basically threw a tantrum and demanded to go with in spite of Sophie requesting only her sister and Helene. Simply have Ludovika put her foot down and say "no". I mean, Sisi behaved like a spoiled brat in Bad Ischl, since she got into a row with her governess (little Sisi couldn't skip school so they had to take the dame along) and stormed out of the classroom - into the room where FJ was supposed to be taking the measure of Helene to propose
 
Problematic. Since FJ didn't exactly take to Helene. IIRC both were tongue-tied and awkward in each other's company, and while Helene was suitably pious and was everyone's (read: Archduchess Sophie's) first choice for empress, FJ found her uninspiring. Part of the reason that Sophie and Sisi didn't get on was because a) she was a constant reminder to Sophie of her son thwarting her; and b) she was unsuited to court life.

I'm with @isabella and @colleoni on this. If you don't want FJ to marry Sisi instead of Helene bring her with to Bad Ischl. AFAIR Sisi basically threw a tantrum and demanded to go with in spite of Sophie requesting only her sister and Helene. Simply have Ludovika put her foot down and say "no". I mean, Sisi behaved like a spoiled brat in Bad Ischl, since she got into a row with her governess (little Sisi couldn't skip school so they had to take the dame along) and stormed out of the classroom - into the room where FJ was supposed to be taking the measure of Helene to propose

Lol, sounds like a rom com and bollywood movie mixed into one.
 
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