Franz Joseph I has a second son

Not sure if this has been asked before, so apologies if it has.

Franz Joseph had three daughters and one son, Rudolf who died in 1896, as a result of a suicide pact with his mistress. My question is this, what would the consequences be if Franz had a second son, born in say 1864? Let's call the kid Joseph. And let us say that he is somewhat similar to his father in his manners, somewhat conservative politically, in contrast to his brother and mother. Who could he be married to?
 
Not sure if this has been asked before, so apologies if it has.

Franz Joseph had three daughters and one son, Rudolf who died in 1896, as a result of a suicide pact with his mistress. My question is this, what would the consequences be if Franz had a second son, born in say 1864? Let's call the kid Joseph. And let us say that he is somewhat similar to his father in his manners, somewhat conservative politically, in contrast to his brother and mother. Who could he be married to?
The only realistic way in which Franz Joseph can have another son (without the need of altering drastically his wife's personality) is having Marie Valerie, the youngest daughter born male. This ATL Valerie will be called Stephan after the patron saint of Hungary and if he had the same kind personality of OTL Marie Valerie is exactly what you asked
 
Last edited:
The only realistic way in which Franz Joseph can have another son (without the need of altering drastically his mother's personality) is having Marie Valerie, the youngest daughter born male. This ATL Valerie will be called Stephan after the patron saint of Hungary and iff e has the same kind personality of OTL Marie Valerie is exactly what you asked
Alright fascinating
 
I was talking about Empress Elisabeth not Archduchess Sophie before. After Rudolf's birth she had done her duty and likely stopped to sleep with her husband and the only reason for the birth of Marie Valerie was who the Empress wanted a child for Hungary... So Marie Valerie was born in Hungary, grown up Hungarian and in the end she was closer to her father than to her mother and hated or at least disliked Hungary (she worshipped her father and was happy when she was permitted to speak german with him).
 
Franis III (22 April 1868 – 6 September 1958) was born the youngest child and second son of Emperor Franz Joseph I and Empress Elisabeth.
Named after his great grandfather Francis II, whom his father idolised.

As the younger brother of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria, Francis was not expected to succeed to the throne.

He married Princess Sophia of Prussia (14 June 1870 – 13 January 1932)
 
Franis III (22 April 1868 – 6 September 1958) was born the youngest child and second son of .
Named after his great grandfather Francis II, whom his father idolised.

As the younger brother of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria, Francis was not expected to succeed to the throne.

He married Princess Sophia of Prussia (14 June 1870 – 13 January 1932)

Fantastic, interesting that there is a marriage to a Prussian Princess, part of the strengthening of the alliance? I'm curious as to whether World War One would happen in this scenario in some shape or form, or could we see Austria retain its Empire?
 
Fantastic, interesting that there is a marriage to a Prussian Princess, part of the strengthening of the alliance? I'm curious as to whether World War One would happen in this scenario in some shape or form, or could we see Austria retain its Empire?
The Prussian marriage was an idea brought about by Wilhelm and Franz Joseph.

Without Franz Ferdinand being shot and a Crown Prince being linked to Hungary and the Balkan regions, i would like to think that tension is soften.
 
Okay very true. I do imagine then that with a pod in 1868, that tensions are far more likely to have cooled down by about 1914, and that WW1 might well be avoided, or could happen earlier if indeed tensions reach a high point over something else.
 
The kid will named Stephan for sure (he will be Empress Elisabeth's beloved hungarian child) and considering Rudolf's family life I think many will started to see our Stephan as the almost-sure heir of his older brother around 1884-1885 so everyone will be waiting the next generation of heirs from his wedding. A princess of Prussia as bride can be good if she is willing to convert to Catholicism, if either Sophia or Wilhelm are against the conversion is better searching a bride for our prince between the Catholic princesses because a protestant Empress of Austria is a big no (and a protestant Archduchess is almost equally bad).
With Stephan (and maybe a couple of sons) between him and the Imperial Crown, maybe Franz Ferdinand will be able to get the permission to marry equally his beloved Sophie (who after all was just only a little step under the lower requisite for marrying equally an Archduke)
 
Stephen, a male version of Valerie, is a stout German Catholic, detests Hungary, adores his father, is suffocated by his mother. I don't see a Prussian marriage due to the religion issue and the lack family connection. What about Helene d'Orleans? She had been shopped around quite a bit unsuccessfully. She was Catholic and there had been Habsburg-Orleans-Coburg marriages. They enjoy the comforts of Viennese upper crust life and have a few kids. What is his legacy? He won't rule until 1916. Maybe he touts the Austro-Russian detente and steps in the way of the Annexation saving the sunshine policy established in 1897. Austro-Russian joint backing of Bulgaria instead of Serbia? Bulgaria gets big in 1913 and Serbia stays small. Bosnia is an Austrian protectorate. Albania still happens.
 
A Helene de Orleans match might also have been a great alternative for her father who stood in the way for religious reasons from her original wish to marry Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence (known as Eddy to his family) who prior to his untimely death in 1892 was second in line to the throne of the United Kingdom behind his father the Prince of Wales, the future Edward VIII. I understand her life and marriage post Prince Eddy was not necessarily a happy one. But were the Hapsburg's big on "exiled' or deposed royalty marrying their Archduke's in direct line to the throne? Would it have caused diplomatic tensions considering Austria-Hungary was allied to Germany whom Republican France vowed eternal revenge for the loss of Alsace and Lorraine in their loss to Prussia/Germany in the Franco-Prussian War.
 
Last edited:
Hmm interesting, if stephen is similar to his father in similar things is it guaranteed that he'd despise Hungary?

A marriage to Helen could be quite good, especially if they meet before her courtship with Albert or perhaps afterwards.

Seeing him support Bulgaria would be fascinating especially with the Serbian coup happening in the early 1900s. And the way Franz Joseph worked there's no telling when he might've popped it. With the diversity of th empire I'm surprised he lived for so long.
 
As for Sophia,otl she did convert to orthodoxy when she married Constantine. Would it be a massive no no for her to do the same to Catholicism?

As for policy for marriages to an archduke if the bride was from a ruling or former ruling dynasty that would be fine.
 
Top