the dowry is what I was wondering about. Do we know how much Saxony could contribute as a dowry?
Frankie Goes to the Hofburg, or Napoléon II, Regent of Austria?
I have no idea, but is pretty unlikely who Saxony would be unable to fund a suitable dowry for her (specially as none of her sisters in OTL made a bad match) and in the unlikely case in which they were unable to do it, is likely who at least one between Austria, Prussia and Bavaria would contribuite so I would say who the dowry will NOT be a problem and her bloodline and connections are more valuable than the dowry
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Not With a Helmet or Glitt'ring Spear
Soundtrack: Verdi - Ernani - Ferma, Crudele, Estinguere [1]
*exterior* *Pearl River, China* *on the deck of the vessel, Archimèdes, we see Théodose de Lagrenée and Father Callery signing a peace of paper*
*exterior* *Tangiers* *a treaty is signed between Sultan Moulay Abd Al-Rahman and the French*
*exterior* *Marseilles* *a vessel arrives in port* *we see a Berber man in white disembarking at the docks* *he's followed by his suite*
*exterior* *Rosny* *Henri is walking in the gardens with Léopoldine "Didine" Hugo [2]* *Madame Royal and Caroline de Berri are watching this from a table*
Madame Royal: I cannot believe that you allowed this to happen.
Caroline: there was no... Allowing, Majesté. Henri is nearly twenty-five, unmarried, he's going to do what twenty-five-year-old men do.
Madame Royal: *under her breath* but is it reason to make such a production that the girl is pregnant?
Caroline: yes.
Madame Royal: *looks at her sister-in-law in surprise*
Caroline: The duc d'Orléans' smears cast a long shadow. Even the Grand Duchess mentioned that it's the main reason the czar is hesitant about a marriage. To waste a daughter on a marriage that ends up being childless when he knows the fault is not hers. This way we prove that Henri is capable of fathering a child [3].
Madame Royal: justifying it as necessary doesn't make it less repugnant. After all, if they wanted that proof, a femme de chambre would've sufficed.
Marshal Ney: my apologies, your Majesty, but I agree with the Duchesse. Even the Comte Léon there was some speculation that he was General Murat's son, since his mother was having an affair with the general as well. Madame Vacquerie is a respected widow, with a respected father-
Madame Royal: you forget your place, Ney [4]. Just because Riton allows you to speak so freely does not mean that I will tolerate it. The king's mercy is the only reason your tongue is still able to speak.
Ney: *nods politely*
Madame Royal: *sighing* let us pray that it's a girl then. Last thing we need is to give Monsieur Hugo a grandson who's also the eldest son of the king of France.
*messenger goes up to Henri and hands him a letter* *Henri opens the letter and reading it grows agitated* *abandons Didine and stalks over to where his mother and aunt are sitting*
Henri: did his Majesty grant leave for General Bugeaud to disobey his instructions?
Madame Royal: which instructions would those be?
Henri: the emir of Algiers, his wives, children, brother have been landed at Marseilles as though they are the catch of the day.
Ney: he is a conquered prince, sir, it's perfectly normal.
Henri: normal, yes. Scarcely natural. I understood that Uncle's instructions were that the emir's desire to retire to Damascus were to be respected. Not that he was to be returned to France as though he were a prisoner.
Caroline: it seems Bugeaud has difficulty following instructions when they don't agree with his own opinions.
Madame Royal: it's a clever move.
*Others look at her in surprise*
Madame Royal: come now, Monsieur le Maréchal, Bonaparte did the same thing in Italy and Egypt. Disobey instructions in such a way that you cannot be punished. Antoine didn't wish for the emir to be brought to France because he knew that would oblige him to do something about the man. Now that the emir is here, Antoine will not be able to leave him at liberty without looking as though he is disrespecting the deaths of the French soldiers who made it possible. Nor can he punish Bugeaud for disregarding his instructions without causing the French people to complain.
Ney: he is the king, your Majesty, Bonaparte would've never been troubled by such paltry concerns. He told me after my escape that he'd have had me court martialled on sight for desertion.
Madame Royal: Bugeaud will not be stupid enough to accept a hunting invitation like Monsieur Thiers.
Ney: no, Majesté. And while his behaviour here can hardly be smeared, there is more than one way to kill a soldier, as Henri proved.
Madame Royal: a court martial?
Ney: not quite, Majesté. To do that will tarnish any verdict, his supporters will say it's Légitimiste officers if he's guilty, if he's not guilty, it'll place suspicion on the officers as Orléanist. I was thinking about the civilian courts.
Madame Royal: this is a military matter. Anything he did can be covered as following orders.
Caroline: *smirks* I believe the Maréchal is trying to be tactful to refer to General Bugeaud's behaviour at Blaye.
Ney: exactly, Madame. That was not a military capacity where he disgraced his uniform. And even if he was acting under orders, the men giving those orders-Orléans, Thiers- are dead. Blaming them makes him look like a coward shifting blame onto dead men's shoulders to dodge the noose.
Madame Royal: didn't you do the same thing, Maréchal? I understand Fouché and Talleyrand featured in your version of events.
Ney: I was given no choice in the matter, your Majesty. They asked, I refused and said I would rather die with my back to the wall than the shame. On the morning of the execution, I was drugged and woke up in a coach en route to La Rochelle. As I understand it, Bugeaud does not have friends that powerful.
Henri: and what of the emir. With the Austrian treatment of Monsieur François so fresh in their memory, to intern him will spark outrage.
Ney: let him come up to Paris. Extend him every courtesy to show them he is not a prisoner. Then, as soon as the winter is passed, send him to Aleppo or wherever it was that he wished to go.
Henri: do that then. And then we make sure Bugeaud is returned to Paris in honour of his victory before we start anything against him. I want his fall to be so spectacular that it makes Lucifer's fall from Heaven look like he just tripped *walks back to Didine*
*fade to black*
[1] stop, cruel extinction/death
[2] Due to events, Didine has avoided her death by drowning at age 19yo. Much to the relief of her father and sister, Adèle, both of whom were severely scarred by the tragedy
[3] they don't know about Henri's other two kids. And even if he did come clean about them, it's doubtful anyone would take him seriously
[4] let's face it, while Madame Royal is perhaps more kindly disposed to Ney this go-around, she will still be sharp in pulling him up when he overstep. Like here, where he tries to convince her of something she doesn't approve of
@The_Most_Happy @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Ramontxo @HortenseMancini @Anarch King of Dipsodes @Dragonboy @kaiidth @SavoyTruffle @Wendell @nathanael1234 @Fehérvári @Guatemalan Nat-Synd @Valena @maw @LordMartinax @EmmettMcFly55 @Tanc49
*exterior* *Pearl River, China* *on the deck of the vessel, Archimèdes, we see Théodose de Lagrenée and Father Callery signing a peace of paper*
*exterior* *Tangiers* *a treaty is signed between Sultan Moulay Abd Al-Rahman and the French*
*exterior* *Marseilles* *a vessel arrives in port* *we see a Berber man in white disembarking at the docks* *he's followed by his suite*
*exterior* *Rosny* *Henri is walking in the gardens with Léopoldine "Didine" Hugo [2]* *Madame Royal and Caroline de Berri are watching this from a table*
Madame Royal: I cannot believe that you allowed this to happen.
Caroline: there was no... Allowing, Majesté. Henri is nearly twenty-five, unmarried, he's going to do what twenty-five-year-old men do.
Madame Royal: *under her breath* but is it reason to make such a production that the girl is pregnant?
Caroline: yes.
Madame Royal: *looks at her sister-in-law in surprise*
Caroline: The duc d'Orléans' smears cast a long shadow. Even the Grand Duchess mentioned that it's the main reason the czar is hesitant about a marriage. To waste a daughter on a marriage that ends up being childless when he knows the fault is not hers. This way we prove that Henri is capable of fathering a child [3].
Madame Royal: justifying it as necessary doesn't make it less repugnant. After all, if they wanted that proof, a femme de chambre would've sufficed.
Marshal Ney: my apologies, your Majesty, but I agree with the Duchesse. Even the Comte Léon there was some speculation that he was General Murat's son, since his mother was having an affair with the general as well. Madame Vacquerie is a respected widow, with a respected father-
Madame Royal: you forget your place, Ney [4]. Just because Riton allows you to speak so freely does not mean that I will tolerate it. The king's mercy is the only reason your tongue is still able to speak.
Ney: *nods politely*
Madame Royal: *sighing* let us pray that it's a girl then. Last thing we need is to give Monsieur Hugo a grandson who's also the eldest son of the king of France.
*messenger goes up to Henri and hands him a letter* *Henri opens the letter and reading it grows agitated* *abandons Didine and stalks over to where his mother and aunt are sitting*
Henri: did his Majesty grant leave for General Bugeaud to disobey his instructions?
Madame Royal: which instructions would those be?
Henri: the emir of Algiers, his wives, children, brother have been landed at Marseilles as though they are the catch of the day.
Ney: he is a conquered prince, sir, it's perfectly normal.
Henri: normal, yes. Scarcely natural. I understood that Uncle's instructions were that the emir's desire to retire to Damascus were to be respected. Not that he was to be returned to France as though he were a prisoner.
Caroline: it seems Bugeaud has difficulty following instructions when they don't agree with his own opinions.
Madame Royal: it's a clever move.
*Others look at her in surprise*
Madame Royal: come now, Monsieur le Maréchal, Bonaparte did the same thing in Italy and Egypt. Disobey instructions in such a way that you cannot be punished. Antoine didn't wish for the emir to be brought to France because he knew that would oblige him to do something about the man. Now that the emir is here, Antoine will not be able to leave him at liberty without looking as though he is disrespecting the deaths of the French soldiers who made it possible. Nor can he punish Bugeaud for disregarding his instructions without causing the French people to complain.
Ney: he is the king, your Majesty, Bonaparte would've never been troubled by such paltry concerns. He told me after my escape that he'd have had me court martialled on sight for desertion.
Madame Royal: Bugeaud will not be stupid enough to accept a hunting invitation like Monsieur Thiers.
Ney: no, Majesté. And while his behaviour here can hardly be smeared, there is more than one way to kill a soldier, as Henri proved.
Madame Royal: a court martial?
Ney: not quite, Majesté. To do that will tarnish any verdict, his supporters will say it's Légitimiste officers if he's guilty, if he's not guilty, it'll place suspicion on the officers as Orléanist. I was thinking about the civilian courts.
Madame Royal: this is a military matter. Anything he did can be covered as following orders.
Caroline: *smirks* I believe the Maréchal is trying to be tactful to refer to General Bugeaud's behaviour at Blaye.
Ney: exactly, Madame. That was not a military capacity where he disgraced his uniform. And even if he was acting under orders, the men giving those orders-Orléans, Thiers- are dead. Blaming them makes him look like a coward shifting blame onto dead men's shoulders to dodge the noose.
Madame Royal: didn't you do the same thing, Maréchal? I understand Fouché and Talleyrand featured in your version of events.
Ney: I was given no choice in the matter, your Majesty. They asked, I refused and said I would rather die with my back to the wall than the shame. On the morning of the execution, I was drugged and woke up in a coach en route to La Rochelle. As I understand it, Bugeaud does not have friends that powerful.
Henri: and what of the emir. With the Austrian treatment of Monsieur François so fresh in their memory, to intern him will spark outrage.
Ney: let him come up to Paris. Extend him every courtesy to show them he is not a prisoner. Then, as soon as the winter is passed, send him to Aleppo or wherever it was that he wished to go.
Henri: do that then. And then we make sure Bugeaud is returned to Paris in honour of his victory before we start anything against him. I want his fall to be so spectacular that it makes Lucifer's fall from Heaven look like he just tripped *walks back to Didine*
*fade to black*
[1] stop, cruel extinction/death
[2] Due to events, Didine has avoided her death by drowning at age 19yo. Much to the relief of her father and sister, Adèle, both of whom were severely scarred by the tragedy
[3] they don't know about Henri's other two kids. And even if he did come clean about them, it's doubtful anyone would take him seriously
[4] let's face it, while Madame Royal is perhaps more kindly disposed to Ney this go-around, she will still be sharp in pulling him up when he overstep. Like here, where he tries to convince her of something she doesn't approve of
@The_Most_Happy @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Ramontxo @HortenseMancini @Anarch King of Dipsodes @Dragonboy @kaiidth @SavoyTruffle @Wendell @nathanael1234 @Fehérvári @Guatemalan Nat-Synd @Valena @maw @LordMartinax @EmmettMcFly55 @Tanc49
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@David T is there a possibility of a Clay or a Webster presidency, depending on which party wins? Or would Polk still get a look in after Harrison? Would Tyler try running for president himself? Or van Buren for re-election?
Well, I'm glad Léopoldine has survived but it does mean we miss out on one of Hugo's (in my opinion) best poems ("Demain à l'aube")
Also, I'm intrigued to see what's up the with the French in China
Also, I'm intrigued to see what's up the with the French in China
Well, I'd like to think that while for anything militarily, Bugeaud's future would be in the balance. But Henri's/Ney's advice is going after him in a civilian capacity. Even the military would want to distance themselves from a man who raped the king's sister-in-law/mother.
Bugeaud being as Orléanist as he is likely hasn't made him a lot of friends among the Bonapartists, Légitimists and republicans. Ney's son has challenged him in the chambers over his conduct in Algeria, Angoulême himself found the man repugnant during the Spanish expedition of 1821, and the man has fought a duel with the son of Dupont de l'Eure (and killed him). I suspect the general attitude would be "good riddance to bad rubbish".
Will confess unfamiliarity with Hugo outside Les Mis and Hunchback.
As to France in China, this is an OTL treaty
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traité_de_Huangpu
While Guizot ordered it OTL, I see no reason to think that given travel time to Nanjing, he might not have still ordered it before Louis Philippe's fall in April 1843, and while things have been happening in France, the mission chiefs have either been stalled or continued negotiating regardless of the government change. Given 1844 is also the date that Willem II wrote to the shogun to "open Japan", I could see Angoulême "rolling with it".
I agree here, many of the so-beautiful poems in Les Contemplations were inspired by Léopoldine's death. I've also sometimes wondered if Marius's mother and aunt in Les Misérables weren't based on Hugo's daughters (poor Adèle, though).
Yes. If the Whigs win in 1844
Maybe; see below.
Yes, if he succeeds as President as in OTL, However, Harrison's death is almost certainly butterflied. (Contrary to legend, he did not catch pneumonia from speaking in the rain on Inauguration Day.)
Yes, as in OTL. But as in as in OTL, the DN convention may deadlock, with his supporters unable to get a 2/3 majority. In which case a compromise "dark horse" candidate such as Polk may be nominated.
From what I read on Adèle's wiki article, she certainly had a tragic life. Although how much is owed to Léopoldine's death and how much to genetics I have no idea.
So no chance for Tyler to get in by himself then?
Would the DN convention deadlock as OTL if Harrison's alive? Couldn't Tyler be a TTL dark horse though?
Quite posssibly. Van Buren's faction could have removed the 2/3 rule in 1840, but didn't bother. If they don't ITTL, then the deadlock becomes probable.
Not after accepting the Whig nomination for VP and serving as a nominally Whig VP. He did so as an anti-Jacksonian, and most Democrats were Jackson men. His OTL attempt to build up a Tylerite faction with presidential patronage was utterly futile.
Was wondering something: OTL Alexis de Tocqueville fell out with both the left and the right for his favoring of a broad policy of freedom of education, although I can't seem to find exactly what it was that had everyone so up in arms. Would it be weird to think that he, Ney and Henri (perhaps with some input from Chateaubriand?) manage to forge some sort of "centrist" policy through? Or is that ASB?
At this point, precise plausibility should be a secondary consideration.
@Fehérvári @Tibi088 out of curiosity, did the idea of splitting Hungary off from the main Habsburg branch to a second son ever have any actual legs, or was it always a fringe idea of idiot liberals like Palmerston who wanted to undermine Habsburg/Bourbon authority?
I dont know it ever having much traction but I know of a few inctances.
1. It was I think in the April laws (or if not before it in the 1847-48 parliementary session somewhere) that a rather obscure part of a law defined the relartionship between austria and hungary in that the dynasty must be the same - not even personal union. I remember because a professor at university made a very strong point about it, but as I said this was rather obscure and my googlefu was not up to the task to find more about it.
2. After the revolution started in 1848 (open break between the Habsburgs and Hungary only happened in september 1848) and the Habsburgs changed the ruler to Franz Joseph Hungary did not ackowledge this and considered Ferdinand still as king of Hungary till they finally announced the dethronement of the house of Habsburg. So technically for a few monts this was the situation.
3. Im really bad in this period and it was much earlier but im pretty sure that the change from Rudolp II to Matthias in 1612 - a kinda Habsburg civil war - would present such an opportunity.
Also, given Prussia has been, if not neutered, handed their arse to them, might we see Felix Schwarzenberg's Reich of Eighty Millions idea replace the Klein Deutschland (Germany minus Austria) idea? Since from what I gather that Reich was "non Prussian Germany +Austria+Bohemia+Hungary"
It was pretty much never seriously considered, afaik. Still, the realisation of a Habsburg-led German unification would probably make that a popular and increasingly more discussed idea. If Italy would be also unified by Habsburg hands, then this would be even more the case.