Ramontxo

Donor
Ok that was an wake too far, but maybe a second Jena against the Prussians, but this time with (a) Bonaparte actually being there?
 
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can anyone give me a more or less fix how many soldiers we'd be talking for Austria/Prussia in 1841? Or the level of preparedness?
For preparedness Frankie would make sure the Soldiers are at their most disciplined and drilled, for the Prussians, like the french at crecy and agincourt, they'd think this will be easy prey and are much more relaxed and sloppy, leading to the second Jena.
 
can anyone give me a more or less fix how many soldiers we'd be talking for Austria/Prussia in 1841? Or the level of preparedness?
In 1849 IOTL, the Austrians and Hungarians both fielded about 200 000 men against each other. Going by that, the Habsburg Monarchy can probably mobilise an army of 500 000 men.
 
A New Star Rises in the South
For @pandizzy and @nandalf

Soundtrack: Félicien David: Overture to 'La Perle du Brésil'

*exterior* *various views of Rio de Janeiro*
*cut to interior of the imperial chapel* *we see the coronation of the young Emperor Pedro* *in a prominent place is his stepmother, Amélie of Leuchtenberg, triumphant in full "battle dress" as Dowager Empress* *alongside her stands her daughter, Maria Amélia, Pedro de Araujo de Lima [1], Mariana Carlota de Magalhães Coutinho [2] and Rafael [3]*
*we pan to the audience and stop on a rather sour faced Bernardo Pereira de Vasconcelos[4], with him stands the French ambassador, the comte de Saint Aulaire [5]*
Saint-Aulaire: you do not approve, Monsieur de Vasconcelos?
Vasconcelos: the emperor refusing to acquiesce to his coronation until his stepmother was allowed to return...and the parliament voting for it...bunch of idiots. We all know who sent her.
Saint-Aulaire: I had heard she and the king of Rome had a rather nasty, rather public falling out.
Vasconcelos: then that is even more concerning. As emissary of the king of Rome your master and I could discredit her. Unfortunately, if she is not to be his lackey, she is even more dangerous. You have seen what she has already accomplished since she arrived.
Saint-Aulaire: my master is concerned about his grandson's rights to Brasil not being respected.
Vasconcelos: while I can understand his Majesty's concerns in light of the fact that the duc d'Anjou [6] recent birth, I would point out that as my colleague Teófilo Ottoni pointed out, while the emperor remains unmarried, one can quite understand his reluctance to endorse his nephew as the heir to Brasil. He simply confirmed the lands granted to D. Januaria on her wedding would not be allowed to pass to her son, as her marriage contract agreed.
Léonce Aubé [7]: but surely the Emperor is aware of how his welcoming his stepmother back looks. Then to go and declare that his half-sister is to be immediately after Madame Janvière in the succession, but make no mention of the duc d'Anjou?
Vasconcelos: that is merely to disqualify any notion that maybe held in Stuttgart, Vienna or St. Petersburg that should the emperor die with no heir, the succession will not pass to his remaining sisters.
Aubé: what does Wirtembourg have to offer Brasil, I ask you?
Vasconcelos: while many in Brasil have likely never heard of Stuttgart, the Russian emperor's nephew is certainly a far easier sell than the prince the French king proposed.
Aubé: he is nephew of the king of the Belgians, cousin to the queen of England-
Vasconcelos: and jilted fiancée of the emperor's sister in Portugal. You have to understand that tied with the insistence on the duc d'Anjou's rights it looks rather...desperate, Monsieur Aubé. And the fact that shortly after his refusal, *said with disdain* Prince Fernando turned around and married Maria Josefa Iturbide [8] instead, confirms that notion.
Saint-Aulaire: on the subject of marriages, has the emperor given any thought at all to his own marriage.
Vasconcelos: he has.
Saint-Aulaire: the king of the French will be delighted to hear that.
Vasconcelos: I hear he will not be as delighted when he hears that the emperor has refused his candidate, the D. Teresa of Sicily [9].
Saint-Aulaire: his Majesty will be most saddened to hear that.
Vasconcelos: you must admit, your Excellency, that despite how well the French king is performing in the Rhineland, the recent...problems...make many question the prudence of accepting a third match suggested by the French king. And the death of Prince Henri at the Battle of Bruyères has not left much confidence in the wisdom of a French alliance at all. After all, a French prince killed on French soil by a Frenchman...you can understand how it looks.
Saint-Aulaire: Lieutenant Quenisset is to be court martialed for his actions and-
Vasconcelos: that such a tragedy was allowed to take place at all, Excellency, is rather concerning to the emperor. And were he to take a Sicilian bride at the French king's urging, it might be seen as that he sides with France. Which, as I'm sure you can both agree, in such an environment as we now live in, makes his Majesty's intentions to stop payments on the Princesse de Joinville's lands to the French - until such time as a peace accord is reached - perfectly natural The last thing we in Brasil need is for the British to get spooked into thinking that we are endorsing their struggles in Canada against the Americans.
Saint-Aulaire: the French king is more than willing to allow ships of the French navy for protection against such-
Vasconcelos: there is no need for such measures. The emperor's sister in Portugal and several ships from the Portuguese and Württemberger navies-
Aubé: *furrows his brow* Württemberg doesn't have a navy. It's a landlocked state.
Vasconcelos: they arrived escorting the Dowager Empress, an offer of friendship from Stuttgart in honour of the emperor's sister marrying the Crown Prince [10]
Saint-Aulaire/Aubé: *look at one another in surprise*
Vasconcelos: you asked what Württemberg could do for Brasil that your Prince Fernando couldn't.

*fade to black*

[1] later Marqués d'Olindo, the conservative regent who had sent the Liberals into a panic and led to the campaign to lower Pedro's age of majority. Member of the Faction Àulico
[2] the famed "Dadama" to Pedro II and the mother figure in most of his early years. Later Condesa de Belmonte
[3] can't find much on him besides that he was an Afro-Brasilian who D. Pedro I charged with protecting Pedro I. Nicknamed the "Black Angel", he died at age 98,the day after the republican coup removed Pedro II from power. He arrived at the gates of the imperial palace that day, heard two soldiers on duty shout "Long live the republic!", then continued his walk, thinking nothing of it, to the library. There the librarian Raposo was walking up and down in a state of extreme agitation. Rafael asked what was wrong, and Raposo asked if he had not heard that the republic had been proclaimed and the emperor was at the Paço de Cidade. Rafael replied he hadn't then "may the curse of God fall upon the heads of the executioners of my boy [it was how Rafael spoke of Pedro]!" Then he fell over and died.
[4] the most ardent opponent of Pedro II's majority and former minister of justice and finances, who declared "I vote against the age of majority without guarantees for the throne and for the country."
[5] according to what I can find, despite being the first European country to recognize Brasil (in 1825), France didn't have an ambassador there until 1848. I thought why not take France's ambassador to Vienna (Saint-Aulaire) and send him to Brasil instead of London after his posting in Vienna (since given the state of war between France and Austria, I'm guessing Charles de Flahaut will not be appointed ambassador there. Which means Flahaut gets St. James' instead). Besides, Saint-Aulaire's daughter likely plays the same role to Madame Janvière as she did OTL to Madame Françoise
[6] son of the prince de Joinville and Madame Janvière
[7] French vice-consul in Santa Catarina, representative of the Prince de Joinville
[8] middle daughter of the Mexican Emperor. The "Prince Fernando" spoken of is Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg and Kohary
[9] Louis Philippe backing her is with the same intent as his backing Francisco d'Asis for Isabel II.
[10] these are actually Austrian ships, but to get Wilhelm I to not only agree to restore the defensive arrangement between Venice and Württemberg, Frankie essentially allowed the soldiers sent to become a sort of "maritime infantry". In exchange, Württemberg now has a "stake" in the Austrian navy. And since Württemberg has one, Ludwig of Bavaria wants one (after all, Bavaria actually has overseas interests (Greece). So the Austrian navy now has a Württemberger and a Bavarian "squadron". Granted, those "rookie" soldier-sailors are probably the ones on blockade duty in Marseilles/Toulon etc, and it's a legal fiction that has sent trained Austrian naval officers (possibly salted since they served in the Middle East the previous year) to Brasil in a ship flying the Württemberger flag. But Württemberg "has" a navy for all intents and purposes. [inspired by the joke about a "Swiss admiral/navy"].

@The_Most_Happy @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Ramontxo @HortenseMancini @Anarch King of Dipsodes @Dragonboy @kaiidth @SavoyTruffle @Wendell @nathanael1234 @Fehérvári @Guatemalan Nat-Synd @nandalf @Lascaris @pandizzy @Aghasverov
 
Could we perhaps get a map detailing the French war aims, the actual alliances and the current position of armies? Would be neat.
 
Braniboři v Čechách (the Brandenburgers in Bohemia)
Soundtrack: Smetana: Wallenstein's Camp, op. 14

*exterior* *we see several shots of a battlefield* *we see Albrecht of Teschen on horseback slightly ahead of troops in Austrian uniform* *facing them are troops in Prussian uniform* *led by Generals von Goeben and von Wrangel* *cuts to various shots of the battle* *the fighting is fierce on both sides* *none of that Hollywood stuff where you know who's going to win from the first scene of the battle* *we see Austrian General von Windischgratz [1] killed in particularly violent burst of artillery fire* *we see the Prussian army cheering as they take one of the objectives against the Austrians* *only for them to blanche as Albrecht's wing of the army sweeps in and crushes them against the rocks like a tidal wave* *the actions of the Hungarian troops under Archduke Stephan against the Prussians can only be described as a mélée [2]* *we see Stephan fighting desoerately on foot*
*interior* *Frohsdorf is once more hung with black in mourning* *Madame Royal and the duc d'Angoulême both look old, wan and tired*
Madame Royal: *sadly* poor Henri. His poor mother-
Angoulême: I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about her since we left Paris.
Madame Royal: no mother should have to bury her child. Especially not one killed in such circumstances.
Angoulême: Fritz [3] writes *reading from a letter* that Henri took part in a skirmish with three hundred chasseurs. They crossed a river by swimming and threw themselves in the midst of the cavalry, killing many. *puts letter aside* however gruesome his end was...it is a soldier's death. How else is a son of France supposed to die except with sword in hand and face to the enemy? Stabbed to death on the steps as he descended from his coach like my brother? On the scaffold like your father?
Madame Royal: *jumps up and starts pacing* he was killed by a Frenchman!
Angoulême: so was my brother, your parents, the duc d'Enghien, are we to drown the whole country in blood for their sake? Like they keep doing. It's a miracle there are Frenchmen left! Henri wouldn't want us to do that. You heard what he wrote from Strasbourg in his last letter.
Madame Royal: I don't care what he wanted in his last letter. I want him home. Here. Now! Not in some- *breaks down in tears*
Angoulême: some what, Marie? Henri is doing exactly what my father's actions forced him to. How else is he supposed to reclaim the crown of France? Wait until they ask nicely? Our uncle waited for twenty years for Bonaparte to do that!
Madame Royal: and now we actually have a Bonaparte willing to help us and this happens?
Angoulême: I'm surprised you haven't started blaming the duc d'Elchingen [Ney].
Madame Royal: who I would still like to know how the Hell he is alive! Why do traitors live while innocents are sacrificed?
Angoulême: apparently there was a...cover-up. Something to do with Talleyrand, Fouché and one or two others who were involved in smuggling him out.
Madame Royal: and all of them are dead, so we can't ask them what they did this for!
Angoulême: perhaps we should rather be grateful for what he did for Henri at Landau.
Madame Royal: you cannot be serious!
Angoulême: you do not think twenty-years in exile and not having seen his wife and sons is punishment enough? Henri asked that you forgive him in that letter.
Madame Royal: don't, Louis...don't rob of me the one thing I have left-
Angoulême: *sourly* so what am I? Chopped liver? *picks up paper and disappears behind it [4]* *we see on the headlines that the battles of Hultschin and Ostrau [5] - between Austria and Prussia - was an Austrian victory* *as well as slightly further down - below the fold - a report on the death of Henri, Duc d'Aumale [6]*

*fade to black*

[1] this is the same guy who remarked "if they do not wish to hear about the grace of God (in some versions, the grace of the emperor), they shall hear about the grace of cannon" when quelling the Hungarian revolution in 1848
[2] I have absolutely no idea what type of military capabilities Stephan had beyond that he seems to have been regarded with suspicion in 1848
[3] this would be Frédéric Baciocchi-Lévoy, Henri's secretary
[4] like Mr. Bennet is constantly retreating to his library in Pride and Prejudice (the 19th century version of playing video games according to one writer) to avoid conflict, Angoulême likely keeps a newspaper around to disappear behind
[5] the battles that Albrecht/Stephan were fighting in. These two towns - Hultschin (Hlucin) was Prussian, Ostrau was Austrian as of the peace of Breslau in 1742 - are the only thing separating the duchy of Teschen from the duchy of Troppau, and comprise the narrowest point between Bohemia-Moravia and Galicia as well as between Prussia and Hungary. Had the Prussians broken through, they could've separated Galicia from Austria, and had a reasonably "secure" access to Hungary.
[6] for all those worried I would kill Henri de Chambord off :p The actions in the letter however, are all Henri de Chambord


@The_Most_Happy @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Ramontxo @HortenseMancini @Anarch King of Dipsodes @Dragonboy @kaiidth @SavoyTruffle @Wendell @nathanael1234 @Fehérvári @Guatemalan Nat-Synd @nandalf @Lascaris @pandizzy @Aghasverov
 
Much interesting developments… I was sure who the right Henri was still alive… he need at least to marry and have a couple of sons before dying
 
Could we perhaps get a map detailing the French war aims, the actual alliances and the current position of armies? Would be neat.
I suck at maps unfortunately, so anyone who can help is welcome.

Alliances at the moment:
France+Prussia+Belgium+Sardinia vs Austria (the other German states are perhaps still trying to see which horse to back - sort of like they did in the Seven Weeks' War OTL - and Baden's son that was killed and the Württemberger troops described by Henri are simply Badenois and Wurttemberger regiments in the Austrian army, not necessarily the kingdom's army).
Britain, Russia, Denmark, Holland, Spain, Portugal and Sicily are sitting out for now (which is sort of Frankie's "plan". That this is between Austria and France).

Objectives:
France wants a Rhine border, she hasn't touched Luxembourg yet for the simple reason that that would be a key way to get the Dutch involved. Her gobbling up the former departements of Sarre and Mont-Tonnere is deemed safer. And Prussia would likely have no issue with it beyond it putting the Prussian-French border abysmally close together.
Prussia is a bit "fluid" but is more trying to fluff her credentials in Germany against Austria. She wouldn't be against cutting off Austria from Galicia and swiping more of Poland (if only to trade/leverage the territory in places on the Rhine)
Austria has no aims beyond case of "defend the borders" and "keep what we have" (although with the news of the victory this may change). Also "we ain't getting rid of Frankie, France, so go stuff yourself" (again, this is subject to change, mostly because of how delicate Frankie's position is. So long as Austria is winning, he'll be safe. If Austria loses he's screwed).

Armies:
France in the Rhineland: currently holding a line that goes Trier-Birkenfeld-Kaiserslautern-Speyer
Austria (via Baden): is holding a line that goes between Belfort and St-Die (Bruyères was a defeat as they were intercepted on the road to Épinal, while the other troops successfully took the former Abbey of Remiremont).
 
Halt't euch brav, ihr Deutschen Brüder [1]
For @Ramontxo

Soundtrack: Gaspare Spontini - Agnes von Hohenstaufen: Rifulga con l'Aquila [2]

*exterior* *the sun is coming up* *lots of mist hanging around the river bank* *we can vaguely make out people through the mist* *as it clears, we see that these are Austrian soldiers* *they're busy checking the bodies of the dead* *those alive get helped up and there's stretchers to carry them* *the dead or close to it get a bayonet to speed them on their way*
Prince Vasa: seems cruel *this sounds more like he's just saying it than he actually agrees with it*
Frankie: *taking a draught on a cigarette* most of them won't make sundown, anyway, so it's more merciful than many of them deserve. *offers the cigarette to Adolph of Nassau*
Adolph: so this was your plan all along? When you told us to let the Prussian army through Nassau and Hesse like that?
Frankie: they already controlled Aachen, their next target would've been Frankfurt. Easiest way to Frankfurt is via Mainz, your Serene Highness. It was natural.
Vasa: and what do we do now? With all of these men? *looks at soldiers in Prussian uniforms*
Frankie: *innocently* send them back to Berlin of course.
Adolph: and the ones still in Hesse and Nassau?
Frankie: *grins evilly* we give them back to their loving French allies.

*cut to Vienna* *Kolowrat is sitting in Franz's office, next to Metternich and Karl of Teschen*
Franz: *irritably* does anyone wish to tell me why the Hell I'm explaining to the czar that his daughter-in-law [Amelise of Darmstadt]'s brother [Alexander] is dead?
Karl: these things happen in war, your Majesty.
Franz: a night time raid! Really? Not even his father did that at Wagram!
Karl: *grudgingly* *but you can hear the admiration in his voice* was he supposed to just let the Prussian army settle in Mainz?
Metternich: Mainz is in Hesse, what concern is it of Austria whether the Prussian army squats there or not?
Karl: sieges tend to be long and drawn out affairs. You can't be certain of the outcome. Winter is coming, it wouldn't take anything for the garrison to hold out and simply wait until the cold and ice does their job for them.
Kolowrat: *tired voice* which is what I've been trying to tell Prince Metternich. But he seems to deliberately want to misunderstand.
Franz: thirty thousand Prussian troops dead or wounded? In one night? His father didn't even get that many at Austerlitz! [3]
Karl: considering that the army the Prussians had in the area is twice the size of at Jena [4], thirty thousand they'd barely feel it.
Kolowrat: and, your Majesty, we only had less troops than what the Prussians lost. It was only because the duke of Reichstadt surprised them at midnight that he was able to inflict such casualties.
Franz: *rubbing temples* how many did we lose?
Kolowrat: seven thousand your Majesty.
Franz: Gott im himmel *its unclear if this is meant as an expression of surprise or shock*
Karl: and what are his plans going forward? I've got one son fighting his way through Silesia, one son [Friedrich] stationed off the coast of Brasil and a third [Karl Ferdinand] with him at Mainz. And I'm not getting much out of any of them.
Kolowrat: in the duke of Reichstadt's own words, sir: "watch this space".
Franz: *looks visibly pained* *like should I have seen this coming?*
Metternich: *smugly* its why I always said, your Majesty, the duke of Reichstadt should be...kept in Vienna...where we can keep an eye on him. *sad tone* God knows how many fine gentlemen would still be alive if he had. The Erbprinz of Hesse, for one. His uncle, Prince Emil, the prince of Wied [5], the duc d'Aumale, two princes of Württemberg [6], the grand duke of Baden's son, and those are just the ones we have counted.
Franz: and what would you have, Prince Metternich? That I turn my grandson over because the French king said so? Austria did not ask for this war.
Metternich: I meant no disrespect, Majesty, I just thought you should know that his Serene Highness has decided to offer the Prussian king an ultimatum that essentially boils down to "say uncle and I'll stop". It used "Jena" as a verb, which I don't think that the man will welcome such an unpleasant reminder. -Clearly he has inherited his father's skill for diplomacy
Kolowrat: *needling* I thought your job was to teach him diplomacy, Klemens? If this is what comes out of it, perhaps we should be grateful that Prince Schwarzenberg has been given the job of instructing the Archduke Franz [Joseph]
Metternich: diplomacy I can teach, sir. Tact I'm afraid I can't.
Karl: so then there are things outside of your abilities, Prinz?
Metternich: there are a great many things, sir. Leading armies, reading men's minds, flying-
Karl: I'm sure we could make that last one happen. Drop you out of a window over the Michaelertor.
Franz: Karl, that's enough.
Karl: yes, your Majesty.
Franz: let's not make any hasty decisions. And see how the Prussian king responds to the idea of being "Jena'd" *smiles at the joke*

*fades to black*



[1] fight bravely German brothers
[2] Spontini was a particular favourite of the duchesse de Berri. Chorus' title translates "Shine with the eagle". My apologies for the quality, but a live recording from 1954 is the only one available on youtube
[3] Austerlitz was just under nine thousand
[4] Jena was 55000 troops, and they lost 27000
[5] Elisabeth of Wied, Queen of Romania's dad
[6] these would be Theodelinde's OTL husband and Marie d'Orléans' OTL husband


@The_Most_Happy @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Ramontxo @HortenseMancini @Anarch King of Dipsodes @Dragonboy @kaiidth @SavoyTruffle @Wendell @nathanael1234 @Fehérvári @Guatemalan Nat-Synd @nandalf @Lascaris @pandizzy @Aghasverov
 
France+Prussia+Belgium+Sardinia vs Austria (the other German states are perhaps still trying to see which horse to back
All things considered, shouldn't atleast Bavaria and Hesse-Darmstadt get involved on the Habsburg side? Putting aside any differences/grievances (which may or may not be related to Frankie), these countries' territorial integrity are directly threatened by the French right now.

Meanwhile Hesse-Kassel and Hannover both were fearful of Prussian domination, so them siding with Austria also seems likely to me. Perhaps the leak or rumors of a secret Franco-Prussian agreement about Prussia surrendering the left-bank of the Rhine to the French and Belgians in exchange of their full military-diplomatic support for Prussian annexation/vassalisation of Hannover and Hesse-Kassel might be enough to have these two throw in their lots with Austria.
 
All things considered, shouldn't atleast Bavaria and Hesse-Darmstadt get involved on the Habsburg side? Putting aside any differences/grievances (which may or may not be related to Frankie), these countries' territorial integrity are directly threatened by the French right now.

Meanwhile Hesse-Kassel and Hannover both were fearful of Prussian domination, so them siding with Austria also seems likely to me. Perhaps the leak or rumors of a secret Franco-Prussian agreement about Prussia surrendering the left-bank of the Rhine to the French and Belgians in exchange of their full military-diplomatic support for Prussian annexation/vassalisation of Hannover and Hesse-Kassel might be enough to have these two throw in their lots with Austria.
Nassau, Bavaria and Darmstadt, as of the last post, are on the Habsburg side - or are at least trying to ride two horses with one ass in the same way that a lot of Jacobites did in England OTL, where one son would be sent to side with George II in London and another to the Jacobite court in Rome - despite their Frankie-related differences.

Kassel and Hannover are both in sticky spots in that Ernst August is - for better or worse, still the uncle of England's queen. She might not like him much, but Prussia isn't going to risk getting England involved here by attacking his (Prussian educated) brother-in-law: Friedrich Wilhelm III was a lot of things, but that would be radical, even for him. Kassel is the widower of Friedrich Wilhelm's sister and his new wife is also a Berliner. So while they might be nervous about it, this is one of those scenarios where everybody doesn't want to get caught on the wrong side. And, ATM, as much as they don't like the idea of Prussian annexation, they're not looking for Austrian reassertion either. So they might contribute the odd regiment or two to the Austrian side, but I could see them waiting to see what the Prussian response is to Frankie's offer of peace before they take the final plunge. Even Prussia will have vivd memories of how it picked the wrong side with Napoleon in one of the coalitions and got screwed, then in another, they stayed neutral, but accepted slices of Hannoverian territory from him which immediately made it seem (to the Allies) as though they were on Napoleon's side. So really, everybody's walking a tightrope here (just like they were in the 1860s)

Oh my god, I was about to completely lose it. Sucks for Henri d'Orléans, of course but RITON IS SAFE!
TBF, I'd have preferred if it was Montpensier, Henri d'Aumale is probably one of the "nicer" Orléans' characters, but then I read that Quessinet did actually attempt to assassinate him around this time at a military parade OTL, why only Queniset knows, a son of a the king of France who has three brothers and two nephews in front of him seems like a pretty odd choice - maybe he's like son of Sam who listened to his dog telling him who to kill?
 
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