Francoist Spain

What could be done by Francoist Spain within a few years after WW2 to get them into NATO or on good terms with the West so as to prevent all of the hardships endured as a result of their international ostracism?
 

Blackwood

Banned
Well, I hate to put it this way, but probably ousting Franco and the Falange would be the only plausible way. Either that, or the message of Franco and his government would have to be very different. I'm not sure what could be done to change this, unless perhaps Franco dies earlier and a suitable candidate is chosen who could perform a Juan Carlos-esque transition to democracy. But who?
 

Xen

Banned
Well, I hate to put it this way, but probably ousting Franco and the Falange would be the only plausible way. Either that, or the message of Franco and his government would have to be very different. I'm not sure what could be done to change this, unless perhaps Franco dies earlier and a suitable candidate is chosen who could perform a Juan Carlos-esque transition to democracy. But who?

I dunno about all that! Salazar was really no different than Franco, yet Portugal was in NATO. Perhaps if Franco decided to join the allies at the end of WWII? Sent troops to Korea maybe? I admit its difficult to get Spain in NATO, but I don't think its implausible with Franco still in charge.
 

Susano

Banned
I dunno about all that! Salazar was really no different than Franco, yet Portugal was in NATO. Perhaps if Franco decided to join the allies at the end of WWII? Sent troops to Korea maybe? I admit its difficult to get Spain in NATO, but I don't think its implausible with Franco still in charge.

Well, both Franco and Salazar where dictators with similar ideologies, vut I think it was about legitimacy. Franco had led a coup against Spains rightful government. Naturally and rightly so hed have an aura of illegitimacy...
 
Some of the above posters are right. Franco had to leave. Seems the Allies had more problems with Spain then Portugal.

The US use to send Spain petroleum products during the war and they use to keep some and send most of it to Germany. Seems Spain owned the Germans 220 million for helping them in there Civil War. Also, Spain sent 41000 volunteers to help the Germans fight the Russians.

So after the war many people remembered this. Portugul even thought they had contacts with the Germans and did business were more pro-UK. since both nations had a good history. Also, Portugal was dependent on US for certain items.

Read this. Its starts with Portugal neutrality and contacts with the Germans then and mid-way talks about Spains neutrality and contact with the Germans :http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/goldp6.html

Spain also had contacts with the Japanese Empire. Read this:
http://www.florentinorodao.com/scholarly/sch05b.htm
 

Blackwood

Banned
Is there a plausible way to remove Franco from power post-1945? If so, I'm not really sure if there was anyone capable of transforming the country into a democracy on par with the rest of NATO.

Ideas?
 
Maybe bigger communist threat in europe? yugoslavia getting trieste, Italy going red, more communsit troubles in France. US/NATO could use every ally it could get
 
I have never been sure if the story is truth or a folk tale, but after the Japanese killed many of the remaining spaniards in Philippines, Franco declared war with Japan and offered the US to send some troops to help the americans with the war int he pacific -the US nid not accept the offer.

Now, it borders on ABS than post war Spain had any means to make war in the pacific (the war declaration was merely simbolic), but if the US took care of the logistics there could be seevral divisions of war evterans fightion on Asia alongside the US troops.
 
Now, it borders on ABS than post war Spain had any means to make war in the pacific (the war declaration was merely simbolic), but if the US took care of the logistics there could be seevral divisions of war evterans fightion on Asia alongside the US troops.

what for? US had enough of it's own troops to do the job and having troops from country that also send troops to fight along Gemrany against Us ally would make things much more complicated than would be potential gains
 

Blackwood

Banned
what for? US had enough of it's own troops to do the job and having troops from country that also send troops to fight along Gemrany against Us ally would make things much more complicated than would be potential gains

Possibly why the offer was refused, if the story is true.
 
Possibly why the offer was refused, if the story is true.

Exactly. I suspect than the story is a myth, but since we needed a POD for fascist Spain to enter NATO, I though that as the more likely scenario than did not involve ASBs or the death of Franco (and possibly a second civil war).

As for why should the US accept? For the same reason they stopped the international isolation on the first place: The bases at Rota and Moron. By then they must know or suspect than post war conflic with Stalin was unavoidable, and Rota (in the city of Cadiz, the southern atlantic coast of Spain) is imprescindible to control the Straits and the Mediterranean -Gibraltar is all very good, but it is British, not american, after all. Another good base for the mediterranean control could be Ceuta -or both.


Alternatively, Spain joins Germany and is occupied and turned into a democracy, as happened to Italy os Germany itself. But honestly, post war Spain joining the WW2 in Europe as a full ally is even more ABSish than the Pacific divisions -it simply had nto the meas to do so.
 

Xen

Banned
A thought

We could get Spain, not Francoist Spain, but Spain to join NATO rather easily. Perhaps the French Third Republic flees to North Africa and sets up a government in exile. The French knock the Italians out of Libya, and the Meditteranean is secured by late 1940 early 1941.

When the US enters the war the three allies agree to get a foothold in mainland Europe and decide Spain is the soft underbelly of the Nazi's fortification, and launch an invasion of Spain. The fighting is intense and brutal, but in the end the western allies win the campaign, and return the Republicans to power. After the war Spain gets help via the Marshall Plan, and joins NATO
 
The US and even UK. were not too happy about supporting the Republicans in Spain. The US and other foreign citizens that went there to fight on the Republicans side were volunteers and not sent by any government. Only exception were the governments of Mexico and Russia which supported them. So do not think if the allies invaded Spain that they would want them back in power.

The Nationalists had the overt support of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany and Benito Mussolini’s Fascist Italy, while other European countries, and even the United States, gave covert support by giving a blind eye as many European and American based companies sold the Nationalists fuel, vehicles, and other needed materials. On the other hand, with the exception of Mexico and Russia, the outside world openly shunned the Republic.

Although communist parties did exist in Spain at the outbreak of the Spanish Civil war, they were relatively small in size and wielded varied amounts of influence. Once the war began, however, communism spread throughout the Republic held territories both in size and influence to the point where the communist party eventually held more sway than the Republic government. This essay will explore how the lack of support for the Spanish Republic by the world’s leading democratic nations directly led to the rapid growth of communism in 1936-1939 Spain.
Got quotes from this site: http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/spanishcivilwar.aspx
 
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