Franco-Prussian War, 1867?

Thanks guys for the feedback :)

For those whom question how this war may come-about, how about Emperor Napoleon III simply makes another foreign blunder and ends up in war with Germany? I mean he's known for his blundering, and let's be honest in that wars have been caused by more minor things.

That is pretty possible, in fact depend of how sily is Napoleon III (not butterfly to probe the opposite), and Susano, sorry, even if I know thant you know more of German History, the First London Treaty still favor Prussia in Luxemburg,the right of the German confederation troops, if NGF is the recgonized succesor, that means than the frenchmen is keep with his demand, will be like in 1870, Bismarck will reveal his plans with belgium and make lose any support of London(and Italy about rome) and russia support is dead for the support of the Polish Rebellion.

In fact Nordic Bit, if you want a early unification with luxemburg... this is the proper POD
 

Eurofed

Banned
That is an ASB cliche for Italian, even Mussolini never care for that, their enemy was always the Austrians, even if the french goes to war...

You are so wrong on this. Even if the Austrian irredentist claims were always regarded as definitely more important than the French ones, it was always a matter of degrees, a judgement which diplomatic, political, and military factors could make swing one way or the other, much like deeming whether Austria or France was the worse geopolitical rival for Italy, irredentist grievances aside. Otherwise would Italy would have never joined the Triple Alliance and stayed for 30 years.

Moreover, Italy had a huge grievance against France in 1867, namely French support for Papal rule in Rome (something that outshined Trento and Trieste by leagues). If Prussia and France come to blows in 1867, it means Italy can give full, overt support to Garibaldi's attempt to conquer Rome (something that would force Napoleon III to declare war on Italy anyway, even if it means fighting a two-front war), and kick the French out of Latium with Prussian support. This is a very good reason to keep the Prussian-Italian alliance active in case of an early Franco-Prussian War over Luxemburg, and if Italy can net Nice, Savoy, and Corsica too in the process, and cut France down a peg, it is certainly no loss. ;)

With a little diplomatic maneuvering masterminded by Bismarck, France may be goaded to attack Prussia and Italy, looking the aggressor bent again on Napoleonic dominance of Western Europe in the eyes of Britain and Russia, and hance left to its fate.

the last was show us how so 'well':)rolleyes:) the italians can wage war(loss the most important battle and they depend of olalala French Support to win Venetia).

Italy made a poor performance in the 1866 war entirely because an handful of commanders were quite poor, the quality of the army and navy was otherwise quite good and would have ensured a much better outcome. The 1866 outcome made the bad apples be largely rooted out, so that Italy would perform in a Franco-Prussian War much better than in 1866. Not that it would have ever achieved a strategic breakthrough in the Alps before the Prussians broke the back of the French army, the realities of the Alps front being what they were. But a second front would have made the French defeat ever swifter and more decisive than OTL, after Sedan-equivalent the Italians would have got Chambery and Grenoble, swarmed Dauphine and Provence, and besieged Lyons and Marseilles.
 
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Thanks again guys :) So how likely would you say it is that Austria having just lost a war the previous year would declare war on Prussia again? If they did how would the Austro-French alliance do against the Italo-Prussian alliance? Would the Prussians and Italians win? And if so what territorial exchanges would we see? Would Germany be united as it was after OTLs Franco-Prussian War? Would Bohemia go to Prussia? Would Italy regain Nice and Savoy? And so forth.

If Austria doesn't join then what kind of territorial exchanges would we see in a war between France vs Prussia & Italy?
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The quality of the Italian military was questionable at best, like the french army, it was excellent on paper but had its own problems; France's was a terrible supply position and a number of politically unsure generals, Italy's was the fact that the officer staffs of Sicily and Sardinia still had enormous teething problems and heavy difficulties working together, and neither group could Junker their way into dominance because neither group was dominant enough: the Sicilian army was larger but the Sardinian army was closer to the crown, while the general population of Italy was bordering on generalized apathy. It was worse in the navy but the army still showed signs of this for decades after.

No matter who was put in command, the officer corps' internal quarrels would still go a long way to making sure the Italian army would have trouble against the armies in the south (a lot of supplies were wasted in 1870 into making sure Italy wouldn't try to retake the old sardinian departments). And only 30.000 men are in Mexico, France fields about 10 times that in peace time.

And if it looks like a protracted war is about to happen, Bismarck will do everything to avoid it.
 

Susano

Banned
Thanks again guys :) So how likely would you say it is that Austria having just lost a war the previous year would declare war on Prussia again?
As has been said, close to zero in 1867, because coincidentally that is just the very year Austria reformed into Austria-Hungary. Theyre really too busy with internal matters. Consequently, Italy most likely wont enter the war, and if its Germany (i.e. Prussia and the three south German states) vs France then most likely like 1870/71 Germany will win, though with a not yet well reformed artillery wing it might be more difficult than IOTL.

And if so what territorial exchanges would we see? Would Germany be united as it was after OTLs Franco-Prussian War?
Probably much the same as IOTL. Bismarck will realise a need for German unity to secure the constant support of the southern state, just as IOTL, so just as IOTL the southern three states will join the NGC and it will be renamed German Empire. I dont see any reason why the French territorial cocnessions should be any different from OTL, and Luxemburg will also join the NGC/German Empire as own state.
 
See Susano explaniation, In fact Austria helping the French is another bad cliche(and very bad, because the Austrians have a grunge of the French for the lack of Support of the Seven Weeks War)

In general, the Same Result than OTL, but more battle for both side, maybe that will be the French even more vengative..:eek:
 
Hmm... I understand (now) why Austria is unlikely to join the war, however why wouldn't Italy? To me it seems the perfect excuse for Italy to take Rome, after which Napoleon III would surely declare war on Italy.
 
Hmm... I understand (now) why Austria is unlikely to join the war, however why wouldn't Italy? To me it seems the perfect excuse for Italy to take Rome, after which Napoleon III would surely declare war on Italy.

Yes they make it in OTL... but never declare war in France but to the Papal States,France even as the (Nominal) Protector(Guarating their Independance), the so difficult war with Germany make than Impossible

In fact Italy will act like OTL, when France call back his troop from Rome, they Italians will invade it and ceteris paribus here with the Pope and all, but Italy declaring War into France, Even a Year before the Military Failure Against Austria... is almost an ASB in some way(I'm saying the True Eurofed and if Italy invade know the old Savoyard land.. that means than they will never be bride to join the CP,but that in better in some way)

that are my thought/opinions
 

Susano

Banned
Hmm... I understand (now) why Austria is unlikely to join the war, however why wouldn't Italy? To me it seems the perfect excuse for Italy to take Rome, after which Napoleon III would surely declare war on Italy.

Why wouldnt Italy? Well, its very well deductable from the fact that they didnt IOTL. Im sure many Italian nationalists would think of Savoy and Nice as nice re-additions to Italy, but they were mostly focused on Rome (whichc ould be taken without declaring war on France), and after that on Austria. So, its for example not completly unreasonable for Italy to join the CP in a CP victory scenario as soon as its 100% clear that theyd win to get Nice and Savoy - but OTOH, Italy wouldnt actively purusue them as anything else than a gain of opportunity.
 
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