Franco-Polish Madagascar Plan

Let's suppose that the February 1934 anti-parliamentary riots in France result in Action Francaise taking control of the country. These folks were so antisemitic, they thought that Petain's government was going soft on the Jews.

Poland looked at the idea of sending its Jewish population to Madagascar in 1937. What if the antisemitic governments of Poland and France proceeded to send their Jewish populations to Madagascar?

I would include Germany as well, but I think that an AF France would respond differently to the Rhineland Crisis - which would result in Hitler's being removed from power by the German military.

OTL Jewish Populations:

Poland: 3,350,000 (1937)
France: 300,000 - 330,000 (1937)
Morocco: 250,000 - 265,000 (1948)
Algeria: 140,000 (1948)
Tunisia: 50,000 - 105,000 (1948)
Syria: 15,000 - 30,000 (1948)
Lebanon: 5,000 - 20,000 (1948)
Total: 4 million to 4.25 million

Madagascar's Population was 4 million at the time.



800px-Madagascar_Plan_%28Franco-Polish%29.png
 
Send how many? What about the logistics? You can't just dump people on some beach and sail home for another group. IIRC Poles though they could safely send maybe 1000 families or something like that.
 
The climate in the mountains isn't bad for Euro settlement, with the advent of air conditioning and anti malaria drugs, its possible I suppose:

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/madagascar

I speculate its one of those places that some thousands of people European settlement might have happened anyway if millions didn't die in the world wars. (Creating more Rhodesia like problems)

As mentioned above, sending millions of people, thousands of miles to resettle would be a major human achievement, would cost billions.

I can't believe a majority, or even a significant minority would be in favor of moving there, even if you gave a subsidy for them to move. So it would be a round em up by force, move em to a ghetto kind of thing. Would this really fly politically?
 
Send how many? What about the logistics? You can't just dump people on some beach and sail home for another group. IIRC Poles though they could safely send maybe 1000 families or something like that.

As mentioned above, sending millions of people, thousands of miles to resettle would be a major human achievement, would cost billions.

I can't believe a majority, or even a significant minority would be in favor of moving there, even if you gave a subsidy for them to move. So it would be a round em up by force, move em to a ghetto kind of thing. Would this really fly politically?




All of the Jews of these countries, over a period of a decade or longer I would imagine. These are viciously antisemitic regimes.
 
I can't believe a majority, or even a significant minority would be in favor of moving there, even if you gave a subsidy for them to move. So it would be a round em up by force, move em to a ghetto kind of thing. Would this really fly politically?

Well, given that the nations pulling this move off would be antisemitic totalitarian dictatorships it probably wouldn't matter whether there was political will amongst the people to see it happen.

As a side note, this could be a scenario that sees this map happen. Though the Italy bit would be tough as Action Française would likely be keen on allying them unless there was some sort of counter coup that got rid of Mussolini before war broke out.
 
Would this really fly politically?

In a dictatorship it might.

But in France, it wouldn't be pretty. There would be major resistance, even violent, to an Action Francaise regime from proto-Popular Front supporters - and France had a *lot* of them in 1934. The government would have to suppress all that first, which would be a formidable undertaking by itself. The result would be a state of martial law, and the jails would be full of political opponents.

Assuming it succeeds in doing so, France is now under a state of martial law anyway, so roundups of hundreds of thousands of people could be possible. But as you note, it would be *very* expensive - and French finances were already parlous even before it could try any sort of martial law.

And France would also take a hit in foreign relations in trade. American and Commonwealth votaries would appalled, even with their own anti-semitic elements. You could see trade sanctions put in place.

Poland had the advantage of already having a dictatorship. Its problem was that it had far more Jews to resettle, and a lot less money to do it with.
 
I'm more interested on a Fascist France-Polish alliance in Europe that forces Germany to back down and get a coup. Who will ally with the new German military regime? Will UK drop the Versailles sanctions if France starts trying to get dominance on the continent? What about the USSR? Perhaps a 3-way WW2 between Germany, UK and US on one side, France, Italy, Japan, Poland and most of Central Europe on another side, and the USSR on the third bloc?
 
I'm more interested on a Fascist France-Polish alliance in Europe that forces Germany to back down and get a coup. Who will ally with the new German military regime? Will UK drop the Versailles sanctions if France starts trying to get dominance on the continent? What about the USSR? Perhaps a 3-way WW2 between Germany, UK and US on one side, France, Italy, Japan, Poland and most of Central Europe on another side, and the USSR on the third bloc?

Apparently Stalin said during the Rhineland crisis that if war broke out between any of the western nations that the Soviets would sit out until the winner was clear then dogpile in on the winning side just to say their piece at the peace conference. Plus the US would have to suffer a Pearl Harbor like incident, otherwise they would sit out as their was no appetite in the US for another war. Definitely an interesting idea, tho, which is why I posted about that map. It's be an interesting TL to read.
 
Hm. Perhaps it's a French-led plan to just relocate their Jews then and the Polish government "encourages" many of its jews to move?
?

That is possible, since Poland was already pursuing a similar policy wrt. Palestine (arming and training Jewish militias to overthrow the British and open the way for mass emigration). If France declares Madagascar open to all Jews, the Poles may buy them tickets. Whether the Jews will take them is another question—the life of a subsistence farmer in Africa under the rule of a French colonial government and collaborating French Jews who may despise their Polish coreligionists too* probably won’t hold much appeal for most of them.

Would a Fascist France be more likely to back up the Italians over the Austrian crisis when Dollfuss was murdered?

*: Lest we forget, European Jewry was far from a monolith. Assimilated Francophone Jews might have as much contempt for religiously-observant, Yiddish-speaking Polish Jews as their gentile neighbors. Even Hannah Arendt made some cracks about the superiority of German Jews to Eastern European ones, who were in turn better than Mizrahim, IOTL.
 
To be clear in the Nazi plan for Madagascar 'resettlement' was just a euphemism, the plan was for the Jews to simply starve in a giant ghetto far from the gaze of the world's media. There is no way that any country executing such a plan of deportation fueled by anti-Semitism is going to be prepared to spend the resources needed to provide housing and agriculture for the deportees. It's a scheme for mass murder however you dress it up.
 
Send how many? What about the logistics? You can't just dump people on some beach and sail home for another group. IIRC Poles though they could safely send maybe 1000 families or something like that.
As mentioned above, sending millions of people, thousands of miles to resettle would be a major human achievement, would cost billions.

I can't believe a majority, or even a significant minority would be in favor of moving there, even if you gave a subsidy for them to move. So it would be a round em up by force, move em to a ghetto kind of thing. Would this really fly politically?


Sadly, you can and history is full of examples. The Cherokee and the Trail of Tears all the way up to Idi Amin's expulsion of the Asians in Uganda show that man is quite capable of this and far worse (see Yugoslavia Civil War)

As for it costing "billions"- again, sadly the calculation wouldn't work that way. With their expulsion, the Jews would see their asset seized and they would be left "naked on the beach" to die or not. their homes, businesses and other property would be distributed to the backers of the expelling Government. Just as in Nazi Germany, the regime could find itself strengthened
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
In a dictatorship it might.

But in France, it wouldn't be pretty. There would be major resistance, even violent, to an Action Francaise regime from proto-Popular Front supporters - and France had a *lot* of them in 1934. The government would have to suppress all that first, which would be a formidable undertaking by itself. The result would be a state of martial law, and the jails would be full of political opponents.

Assuming it succeeds in doing so, France is now under a state of martial law anyway, so roundups of hundreds of thousands of people could be possible. But as you note, it would be *very* expensive - and French finances were already parlous even before it could try any sort of martial law.

And France would also take a hit in foreign relations in trade. American and Commonwealth votaries would appalled, even with their own anti-semitic elements. You could see trade sanctions put in place.

Poland had the advantage of already having a dictatorship. Its problem was that it had far more Jews to resettle, and a lot less money to do it with.
Transportation costs can be covered by confiscation of Jewish property. A regime that would do this won’t be spending much in ensuring the well-being of the Jews after they arrive.
 
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Vichy France send 80 000 jews to their deaths, 13 000 in the Vel' d'Hiv raffle alone. Via Drancy (Paris suburb). I suppose one could use Drancy to send the same unfortunate people, not to their flaming death in Germany, but to Le Havre harbour, and then onto ships, direction Madagascar. In the 30's France had a consierable Navy and merchant navy.

As a side note, this may have some bizarre conséquence on La Réunion Island nearby. Probably a lot of those poor jews would rather flee to La Réunion than staying in Madagascar - how ironic that would be, considering the fact that La Réunion is part of France ! Back to square one, you racist idiots...
Imagine, La Réunion being assaulted by jewish boat-people from Madagascar. One can suppose the french Navy would patrol the area and sink whatever refugees boats they could intercept...

Geez, that's so bizarre and sickening at the same time !
 
Transportation costs can be covered by confiscation of Jewish property. A regime that would do this won’t be spending much in ensuring the well-being of the Jews after they arrive.

Right after I typed that last post, I saw this!

Yes, that's the only real option available. But I can't see Pilsudski, let alone his "colonels," being willing or able to even try that. It's just not plausible.
 
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