Franco-German War: 1887?

Who wins?

  • German Empire

    Votes: 78 72.2%
  • Third French Republic

    Votes: 30 27.8%

  • Total voters
    108
Germany might have the numerical advantage, but the fact is they're not getting into France untill they get past the border forts, and if French infatry and artillery is really superior at this point that's not going to happen. The Germans couldn't get past Verdun in 1916, and that's when France was stretched over another a much larger front (albeit they had British help and the Germans were manning their lines by themselves) and the numerical, technological and srategic advantage was entirely to Germany.

Italian and Austro-Hungarian intervention? What are they going to do? The reasons Italy stayed out of the Great War untill 1915 are still very relevant in 1887, and either way their military will still be appalling if not worse. AH could maybe add to the Italian front if Italy does even enter, but that's still not very likely, and if they enter just to support Germany then all they can do is add bodies to the Lorraine meat grinder.

I really feel sorry for France right now, all the Germanophilia on this site, combined with being crushed twice and very nearly crushed once has really ruined the reputation of former Great Power and military force.
 
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numerical advantage goes to germany, as does production and leadership.

if france declares war (as envisioned) italy and austria are in. who cares for colonies when you can have some square miles of france? :D

Firstly Italy coming into the war would most likely be over gaining Tunisia and Savoy back. Why Austria would want a chunk of France is beyond me. Not to mention the potential benefits Austria could get from a German loss in the war.
 
Well, the Germans won´t have as much an eqipment advantage as the french artillery is now as good equipped as the German one. But I know of at least three field guns in the French arsenal with different calibres at this time: the de Bange 80mm mountain gun, the de Bange 90mm field gun, and its predecessor the Lahitolle 95mm, all of this guns still used in WWI due to lacking french production capacities. For the same roles the Germans had the FK73.
In other regards 87 is a bad year for the French equipment wise as well: In theory the Lebel 1886 is much superior, which just enters service this year, but just like the German Gewehr 88 it was next to useless in field conditions until improved several years later. Frankly the Germans with their 71/84 are better of imo.
And finally the glorious French fortress line: This is the time of the explosive shell crisis which made all just built forts obsolete while giving few time to reinforce them or even built modern ones. French (and to be fair German) fortifications are next to unprotected except by some earthworks.
Since the French army has improved in doctrine and organisation after the last war they will fare better this time, but this reforms are far from complete and France is diplomatically still isolated in Europe: Thus the war might be less one sided, but the end is a given: France gets beaten
 
So I guess by the means of election, Germany has a pretty swift victory. If Germany does defeat France badly, what are the effects on Europe and the world post 1887?
 

Eurofed

Banned
In 1887 Crispi was in charge in Italy, who was quite Germanophilic and a strong supporter of the Triple Alliance.

In the mid-late 1880s, tensions with France were at their apex in Italy, Germany was seen as a model, and the loss of Nice, Savoy, and Tunisia still smarted. I actually seem to remember there was once a war panic or two in Italy about a possible conflict with France in this period.

Unless France looks like the clear victor from the beginning, Italy would fight to get Nice, Savoy, Corsica, and Tunisia.

Moreover, it is all but sure that with Bismarck at the helm, it would be revanchist France to start the war, which would bind Italy to intervene by the terms of the Triple Alliance.

ARTICLE 2. In case Italy, without direct provocation on her part, should be attacked by France for any reason whatsoever, the two other Contracting Parties shall be bound to lend help and assistance with all their forces to the Party attacked.

This same obligation shall devolve upon Italy in case of any aggression without direct provocation by France against Germany.
 
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Just a question, if France and Germany had gone to war over the Schnaebele incident, who would have won? At this point, Britain could've sided with either nation. But would the Schlieffen plan come into use? Forcing a British intervention?
Why would Britain side with Germany at this time? Whats the benefit in doing so?
 
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