Franco enters the war short timeline.

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The Suez Canal was being repeatedly blocked by mines dropped from German aircraft operating from Rhodes, to such an extent in 1940 and early ‘41 that the army in the western desert was at times receiving only half the supplies it required.

You don’t need to take possession of a canal to render it unusable to the enemy.


Franco’s ‘shopping list’ was French Morocco and Western Algeria. The German compensation offer to Vichy was that the French Empire would be compensated with further overseas possessions following the defeat of the British. Some deft diplomacy by Germany and these two conflicting demands could have been managed; Germany had ‘settled’ the conflicting territorial demands of Hungary and Rumania and had resisted handing significant French territories to Italy so it is certainly not beyond the bounds of the possible.

Hungary and Romania were not France, not in scale, not in power, and not in insufferable amounts of pride. And Algeria was on the level of Alsace-Lorraine in terms of national territory in the consciousness of the time.
 
The Suez Canal was being repeatedly blocked by mines dropped from German aircraft operating from Rhodes, to such an extent in 1940 and early ‘41 that the army in the western desert was at times receiving only half the supplies it required.

You don’t need to take possession of a canal to render it unusable to the enemy.


Franco’s ‘shopping list’ was French Morocco and Western Algeria. The German compensation offer to Vichy was that the French Empire would be compensated with further overseas possessions following the defeat of the British. Some deft diplomacy by Germany and these two conflicting demands could have been managed; Germany had ‘settled’ the conflicting territorial demands of Hungary and Rumania and had resisted handing significant French territories to Italy so it is certainly not beyond the bounds of the possible.

Very good and realistic post.
 
Through a turn in German strategic focus away from the east towards the south.

Why would that cause them to change their strategic focus though? The Germans probably expected the Spanish and Italians to handle any operations in the Mediterranean, and Hitler was still more interested in going after his ultimate enemy, the Soviets.

You also haven't addressed the whole 'resource' issue, since if Franco doesn't get what he wants then he's not going to enter the war.
 
How many tanks will they be sending to Iraq from India?
How many fighters?

Wars are not won by tanks and fighters alone. You also need plain, boring, rifle cartridges.

"Indian Government Ammunition Factory, Dum Dum, Calcutta, India. This factory manufactured cartridges for use by the British Army in India as well as the Indian Army."

Just one of half a dozen manufacturers in India during the war.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html
http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/303.htm

So, yes, they UK could have drawn supplies from India had it needed to.
 
Why would that cause them to change their strategic focus though? The Germans probably expected the Spanish and Italians to handle any operations in the Mediterranean, and Hitler was still more interested in going after his ultimate enemy, the Soviets.

You also haven't addressed the whole 'resource' issue, since if Franco doesn't get what he wants then he's not going to enter the war.

As ive said previous the hardest part would be to get Franco to enter the war.
The pupose of this thread was to show the strategic direction of the war would be very different had he done so.
If the Germans get sucked into occupation of Portugal and stationing troops in Spain and Morocco it will make Barbarossa much less likely.
It would also make the move to Egypt more attractive with the despatch as planned by Hitler in Nov 1940 of a Panzer Division in Libya as soon as Mussolini says ok in December.
 
Wars are not won by tanks and fighters alone. You also need plain, boring, rifle cartridges.

"Indian Government Ammunition Factory, Dum Dum, Calcutta, India. This factory manufactured cartridges for use by the British Army in India as well as the Indian Army."

Just one of half a dozen manufacturers in India during the war.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html
http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/303.htm

So, yes, they UK could have drawn supplies from India had it needed to.

Rifles wont stop tanks as the Italians found in 1940.
 
Rifles wont stop tanks as the Italians found in 1940.

And without rifle cartridges you can't stop anyone. You asked what kind of munitions could have come from India, and I pointed out one type.

And BTW, tanks without infantry support tend to die when they try to fight enemy infantry on their own. Even the mighty Nazi Panzer Divisions had as many infantry battalions as tank battalions for most of the war. They carry rifles, and the rifles need ammo just as much as the tanks.
 
And without rifle cartridges you can't stop anyone. You asked what kind of munitions could have come from India, and I pointed out one type.

And BTW, tanks without infantry support tend to die when they try to fight enemy infantry on their own. Even the mighty Nazi Panzer Divisions had as many infantry battalions as tank battalions for most of the war. They carry rifles, and the rifles need ammo just as much as the tanks.

Infantry without tank support die even quicker in the desert.
It is a long way to get British armour to Iraq.
 
It wasn’t important at all nor was Egypt.
A German attack towards Palestine would be much harder for them and in many ways easier for the British to defend against.
As long as Turkey doesn’t enter the war (and even then only if the Germans can help them).

You must be kidding. Gibraltor and the Suez Canal were arguably the two most important strategic locations in the British Empire.
 
You must be kidding. Gibraltor and the Suez Canal were arguably the two most important strategic locations in the British Empire.

Actually they weren't.
Pre-war British planning assumed that if the Med was contested and they were without French support (it was assumed in a joint war that the French fleet would take the Med as its prime mission) that the area would be abandoned, first except for Gib and Suez, then if necessary them as well (although obviously they would try and hold them at a reasonable cost)

Without control of the central Med the 2 ends are fairly unimportant from a strategic point of view - convoys have to go around the cape, they dont need Gib (although its useful) as the convoys were heading for Freetown in Africa. Similary while Suez was useful (and the oil pipeline would be lost), in WW2 British oil came from the USA.

Then they changed their minds and made the Med the central point of the struggle - but the strategic planning was still correct, they could manage quite happily without anything in the Med. After all, once you have it where do you go? Central Africa is impassable for WW2 era armies and their logistic trains (and the British already had considerable local forces in place), while heading east you face the prospect of a 1,000 miles or so of desert with an infrastructure that could be described (optimistically) as medieval.
 
Actually they weren't.
Pre-war British planning assumed that if the Med was contested and they were without French support (it was assumed in a joint war that the French fleet would take the Med as its prime mission) that the area would be abandoned, first except for Gib and Suez, then if necessary them as well (although obviously they would try and hold them at a reasonable cost)

Without control of the central Med the 2 ends are fairly unimportant from a strategic point of view - convoys have to go around the cape, they dont need Gib (although its useful) as the convoys were heading for Freetown in Africa. Similary while Suez was useful (and the oil pipeline would be lost), in WW2 British oil came from the USA.

Then they changed their minds and made the Med the central point of the struggle - but the strategic planning was still correct, they could manage quite happily without anything in the Med. After all, once you have it where do you go? Central Africa is impassable for WW2 era armies and their logistic trains (and the British already had considerable local forces in place), while heading east you face the prospect of a 1,000 miles or so of desert with an infrastructure that could be described (optimistically) as medieval.

Very good post.
 
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