Francis III Duke of Brittany survives

Sorry if this has been done before, but I've been doing a lot of reading recently around the House of Valois during the 16th Century and one thing I am wondering is what might've happened had the eldest son of Francis I of France survived?

Francis III Duke of Brittany died in 1536, at the age of 18, he was the Dauphin before his death.

What might've happened had he survived whatever illness had caused his death and continued to live and succeeded to the throne upon his father's death?

Who might he have married, and what role might he have played in either continuing or ending the Italian Wars?

And if this was linked with an earlier thread posted where James IV does not die at Flodden Field and goes onto have more children and live longer, might a daughter of his marry Francis?
 
If Francis III, Duke of Britanny survived, he would become King Francis II of France in 1547, at the age of 29. Unless killed in action, he could probably reign for 30 years, so his death would be somewhere around the later 1570s-early 1580s. That means he would most likely be facing the religious turmoil that OTL led to the Religious Wars in France. What his stance would be can only be guessed: he is mentionned as wearing black and being very bookish as a result of his captivity in Spain, but that tells nothing on his religious views. The same can probably be said of his policies given that he died very young and played a very small political role during that time.

In regards to marriage, he was considered at one point as a potential husband for OTL "Bloody" Mary I of England, but the project was aborted in the 1520s. He could still end up marrying her given Henry VIII's shifting temper but I personnally wouldn't bet too much on it. Most likely he will be married to a highborn princess, preferably of Royal rank or something closer: at the time period, it probably means a Hapsburg or one of their cousins, especially given the conflicts between Francis I and Charles V. Francis III's spouse has to have a higher standing than Catherine de Medici though, because at the time she married OTL Henri II (François' younger brother), the match was considered a waste. Regarding the possibility of a daughter of James IV of Scotland, I think that the macth could indeed be possible given the Franco-Scottish relations at the time and that Scotland is a Kingdom.

As for the Italian Wars, Francis would most likely continue waging the wars his father started: OTL, the ending only came at the peace of Cateau Cambrésis in 1559, when Henri II married his daughter to Philip II of Spain. I could see the situation be more or less the same as per OTL.
 
If Francis did get married, I'd say the best option would be Sophia jagiellon the daughter of sigismund the old of Poland, this would potentially create and alliance the could pressure on the Hapsburgs.
 
An interesting candidate for a wife, and one who was considered OTL (ICR if this was in lieu of a marriage between François and Eleonore or because of it), was a marriage between the Dauphin and Eleonore's daughter, Maria of Viseu (I think in lieu of it, since after their respective parents' marriages, they would've been brother and sister by canon law, despite only being step-family by law). AFAIK most candidates considered for the dauphin were half-Habsburg/half-Trastamara in some way (Maria of Viseu, Mary I of England), and I seem to recall reading somewhere that François considered either Dorothea or Christine of Denmark for a time for his son.

Although, as to Jagiellonian princesses, I would argue in favor of Isabella before Sophia, especially if the dauphin marries 1535-1540. She's the oldest unwed daughter, and the future king of France is a vast improvement on her OTL husband, an elected king of part of Hungary. Plus, Isabella marrying a Valois, could lead to her sisters perhaps being married off earlier/better as well, perhaps.
 
If Francis III, Duke of Britanny survived, he would become King Francis II of France in 1547, at the age of 29. Unless killed in action, he could probably reign for 30 years, so his death would be somewhere around the later 1570s-early 1580s. That means he would most likely be facing the religious turmoil that OTL led to the Religious Wars in France. What his stance would be can only be guessed: he is mentionned as wearing black and being very bookish as a result of his captivity in Spain, but that tells nothing on his religious views. The same can probably be said of his policies given that he died very young and played a very small political role during that time.

In regards to marriage, he was considered at one point as a potential husband for OTL "Bloody" Mary I of England, but the project was aborted in the 1520s. He could still end up marrying her given Henry VIII's shifting temper but I personnally wouldn't bet too much on it. Most likely he will be married to a highborn princess, preferably of Royal rank or something closer: at the time period, it probably means a Hapsburg or one of their cousins, especially given the conflicts between Francis I and Charles V. Francis III's spouse has to have a higher standing than Catherine de Medici though, because at the time she married OTL Henri II (François' younger brother), the match was considered a waste. Regarding the possibility of a daughter of James IV of Scotland, I think that the macth could indeed be possible given the Franco-Scottish relations at the time and that Scotland is a Kingdom.

As for the Italian Wars, Francis would most likely continue waging the wars his father started: OTL, the ending only came at the peace of Cateau Cambrésis in 1559, when Henri II married his daughter to Philip II of Spain. I could see the situation be more or less the same as per OTL.

Okay interesting, so I guess he wouldn't be doing any of the direct fighting? Hmm either a daughter of James IV or perhaps a Habsburg seem the most likely options

If Francis did get married, I'd say the best option would be Sophia jagiellon the daughter of sigismund the old of Poland, this would potentially create and alliance the could pressure on the Hapsburgs.

Interesting

An interesting candidate for a wife, and one who was considered OTL (ICR if this was in lieu of a marriage between François and Eleonore or because of it), was a marriage between the Dauphin and Eleonore's daughter, Maria of Viseu (I think in lieu of it, since after their respective parents' marriages, they would've been brother and sister by canon law, despite only being step-family by law). AFAIK most candidates considered for the dauphin were half-Habsburg/half-Trastamara in some way (Maria of Viseu, Mary I of England), and I seem to recall reading somewhere that François considered either Dorothea or Christine of Denmark for a time for his son.

Although, as to Jagiellonian princesses, I would argue in favor of Isabella before Sophia, especially if the dauphin marries 1535-1540. She's the oldest unwed daughter, and the future king of France is a vast improvement on her OTL husband, an elected king of part of Hungary. Plus, Isabella marrying a Valois, could lead to her sisters perhaps being married off earlier/better as well, perhaps.

Okay interesting
 
Francis II of France (b.1518: d.1559) m. Marie of Portugal (b.1521) (a)

1a) Aliénor de Valois, Fille de France (b.1538: d.1570) m. Philip II of Spain (b.1527) (a)

1a) Miscarriage (c.1560)

2a) Stillborn Boy (c.1561)

3a) Philip von Hapsburg, Prince of Asturias (b.1563)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1566)

5a) Isabella Michelle of Spain (b.1567)​

2a) Charles de Valois, Dauphin of France (b.1540) m. Mary I of Scotland (b.1542: d.1588) (a)

1a) Marie de Valois (b.1563)

2a) Louis de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1565)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1566)

4a) Elisabeth de Valois (b.1569)

5a) Stillborn Boy (c.1572)

6a) James de Valois, King of Scots (b.1573)​

3a) Miscarriage (c.1541)

4a) Claude de Valois, Fille de France (b.1543) m. Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b.1543) (a)

1a) Charles de Lorraine (b.1565)

2a) Francis de Lorraine (b.1567)

3a) Henri de Valois (b.1570)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1571)

5a) Christina de Lorraine (b.1575)​

5a) Marie Charlotte de Valois, Fille de France (b.1544: d.1550)

6a) Stillborn Boy (c.1545)

7a) Francis de Valois, Duke of Angoulême (b.1547: d.1573) m. Elisabeth de Orleans (b.1545) (a)

1a) Isabel de Angoulême (b.1565)

2a) Francis, Duke of Angoulême (b.1567)

3a) Charles de Angoulême (b.1570: d.1572)​

8a) Miscarriage (c.1550)

9a) Miscarriage (c.1551)

10a) Madeline de Valois, Fille de France (b.1552) m. Henry de Guise, Duke of Guise (b.1550: d.1580) (a)

1a) Charles de Guise, Duke of Guise (b.1571)

2a) Miscarriage (c.1572)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1575)

4a) Francis de Guise (b.1576)

5a) Catherine de Guise (b.1578)

6a) Henri de Guise (b.1580: d.1581)​

11a) Stillborn Boy (c.1554)​
 
Francis II of France (b.1518: d.1559) m. Marie of Portugal (b.1521) (a)

1a) Aliénor de Valois, Fille de France (b.1538: d.1570) m. Philip II of Spain (b.1527) (a)

1a) Miscarriage (c.1560)

2a) Stillborn Boy (c.1561)

3a) Philip von Hapsburg, Prince of Asturias (b.1563)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1566)

5a) Isabella Michelle of Spain (b.1567)​

2a) Charles de Valois, Dauphin of France (b.1540) m. Mary I of Scotland (b.1542: d.1588) (a)

1a) Marie de Valois (b.1563)

2a) Louis de Valois, Duke of Anjou (b.1565)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1566)

4a) Elisabeth de Valois (b.1569)

5a) Stillborn Boy (c.1572)

6a) James de Valois, King of Scots (b.1573)​

3a) Miscarriage (c.1541)

4a) Claude de Valois, Fille de France (b.1543) m. Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b.1543) (a)

1a) Charles de Lorraine (b.1565)

2a) Francis de Lorraine (b.1567)

3a) Henri de Valois (b.1570)

4a) Miscarriage (c.1571)

5a) Christina de Lorraine (b.1575)​

5a) Marie Charlotte de Valois, Fille de France (b.1544: d.1550)

6a) Stillborn Boy (c.1545)

7a) Francis de Valois, Duke of Angoulême (b.1547: d.1573) m. Elisabeth de Orleans (b.1545) (a)

1a) Isabel de Angoulême (b.1565)

2a) Francis, Duke of Angoulême (b.1567)

3a) Charles de Angoulême (b.1570: d.1572)​

8a) Miscarriage (c.1550)

9a) Miscarriage (c.1551)

10a) Madeline de Valois, Fille de France (b.1552) m. Henry de Guise, Duke of Guise (b.1550: d.1580) (a)

1a) Charles de Guise, Duke of Guise (b.1571)

2a) Miscarriage (c.1572)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1575)

4a) Francis de Guise (b.1576)

5a) Catherine de Guise (b.1578)

6a) Henri de Guise (b.1580: d.1581)​

11a) Stillborn Boy (c.1554)​

An interesting mix of children there as well as marriages.

One thing I do wonder is if Francis survives in the timeline where James IV survives, what shit does that change?
 
An interesting mix of children there as well as marriages.

One thing I do wonder is if Francis survives in the timeline where James IV survives, what shit does that change?

Then Mary, his only heir, isn't married into France. He isn't that stupid as to marry one heir to another. Most likely, he finds another, loyal Scottish noble and married her to them. Or legitimizes her bastard brother (any one of them) and goes through that.
 
Then Mary, his only heir, isn't married into France. He isn't that stupid as to marry one heir to another. Most likely, he finds another, loyal Scottish noble and married her to them. Or legitimizes her bastard brother (any one of them) and goes through that.

You mean James IV? If this is part of the timeline where James IV survives, then likely there is no Mary at all
 
Kynan said:
Then Mary, his only heir, isn't married into France. He isn't that stupid as to marry one heir to another. Most likely, he finds another, loyal Scottish noble and married her to them. Or legitimizes her bastard brother (any one of them) and goes through that.
Mary could still end up marrying a French prince though. The only condition would be that he's not the heir to the throne and not to close in the line of succession.
 
If France had a second son about Mary of Scotland age (not more than five years younger than her) a match with the younger would be good, but OTL the only prince France had to offer was the Dauphin who was a year younger
 
If France had a second son about Mary of Scotland age (not more than five years younger than her) a match with the younger would be good, but OTL the only prince France had to offer was the Dauphin who was a year younger

Interesting, very interesting
 
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