Francis I of France dies in 1515

She was considered beneath Henry II otl though no

She was, but who are the other candidates ? If Henry VIII behaves like OTL, Mary Tudor would be kept under control and certainly not wed to the french heir. Habsburgs are potential candidates only in a peace and reconciliation treaty. Same goes for Portuguese or Jagiellon girls. Scandinavia does not offer much in term of alliance. So a fully entitled princess is not available. The Medici are low-born when compared to the other Italian rulers (save the Sforza), but money always sweetens the deal.
 
She was, but who are the other candidates ? If Henry VIII behaves like OTL, Mary Tudor would be kept under control and certainly not wed to the french heir. Habsburgs are potential candidates only in a peace and reconciliation treaty. Same goes for Portuguese or Jagiellon girls. Scandinavia does not offer much in term of alliance. So a fully entitled princess is not available. The Medici are low-born when compared to the other Italian rulers (save the Sforza), but money always sweetens the deal.
Very true and without the malign influence if dianne de Poitiers maybe they can have a good healthy relationship
 
Perhaps Charles of Bourbon can marry Claude and annul his marriage with Suzanne, Suzanne is very much like her Aunt Joanne.

Uh...how? Suzanne at least managed three kids IIRC, the Cte de Montpensier and the twins of 1518, in comparison to Jeanne who's batting zero for zero. It's hardly poor Sue's fault that her kids didn't survive. Besides, as long as Alençon's alive there exists the possibility he MIGHT father an heir (whether with Marguerite or with Claude), so the Constable will stay wed to Suzanne until she dies or he becomes king, whichever is first. And I'm with the poster above who said that the pope's gonna get tired of all these wife swops. Yes, maybe the pope gives Alençon an annulment, but there's just a big a chance he doesn't. A POD in 1515 can mean anything from Leo X dying earlier to Wolsey being elected pope to Adrian VI living longer. And more than this, yes, popes grant annulments, but its worth noting that even when Philippe le Bel's sons were having nothing but girls and the pope was dangling from the king of France's belt was there no mass annulment hysteria such as is being proposed. Louis X and Charles IV separated from their adulterous wives with reason - not the reason being "oh, the missus can't give me a son and heir".

If Alençon's still childless then it'll be seen as God's will and little more to be said. For irony points, have Bourbon (and commanding imperial troops) be besieging Rome when news comes that Alençon's dead and he's now king of France ;)
 
If Alençon's still childless then it'll be seen as God's will and little more to be said. For irony points, have Bourbon (and commanding imperial troops) be besieging Rome when news comes that Alençon's dead and he's now king of France ;)[/QUOTE]


BEFORE besieging Rome, someone shoot him from the Walls of the City.
Let the News come when he is on the March through Italy.:biggrin:
 
Uh...how? Suzanne at least managed three kids IIRC, the Cte de Montpensier and the twins of 1518, in comparison to Jeanne who's batting zero for zero. It's hardly poor Sue's fault that her kids didn't survive. Besides, as long as Alençon's alive there exists the possibility he MIGHT father an heir (whether with Marguerite or with Claude), so the Constable will stay wed to Suzanne until she dies or he becomes king, whichever is first. And I'm with the poster above who said that the pope's gonna get tired of all these wife swops. Yes, maybe the pope gives Alençon an annulment, but there's just a big a chance he doesn't. A POD in 1515 can mean anything from Leo X dying earlier to Wolsey being elected pope to Adrian VI living longer. And more than this, yes, popes grant annulments, but its worth noting that even when Philippe le Bel's sons were having nothing but girls and the pope was dangling from the king of France's belt was there no mass annulment hysteria such as is being proposed. Louis X and Charles IV separated from their adulterous wives with reason - not the reason being "oh, the missus can't give me a son and heir".

If Alençon's still childless then it'll be seen as God's will and little more to be said. For irony points, have Bourbon (and commanding imperial troops) be besieging Rome when news comes that Alençon's dead and he's now king of France ;)
Hat would be hysterical I wonder what becomes of Claude and Brittany assuming Charles remains wed to Suzanne
 
Hat would be hysterical I wonder what becomes of Claude and Brittany assuming Charles remains wed to Suzanne

Claude was never really interested in Brittany and was very religious OTL. A generous pension and a quiet retirement place should make her content with her dowager status. Renée is the real loose cannon here.
 
Claude was never really interested in Brittany and was very religious OTL. A generous pension and a quiet retirement place should make her content with her dowager status. Renée is the real loose cannon here.
This is true could we see a war over Brittany then?
 
Claude was never really interested in Brittany and was very religious OTL. A generous pension and a quiet retirement place should make her content with her dowager status. Renée is the real loose cannon here.
This is true could we see a war over Brittany then?

Not especially. AFAIK, Renée held her tongue over Brittany whilst her sister's descent lived. So, here, where if Claude retires to a convent or simply just to the Chateau de Nantes or some other hotel particulier in Paris, and remains duchess in name only, I can't see Renée behaving differently. What's interesting would be if Renée follows her OTL Reformist bent (she was in contract with Calvin among others) as queen consort of France "la Reine des Huguenots"?

Claude died in 1524 - her already poor health ruined by childbirth - so as a nun she might live longer., but Renée might not necessarily succeed her. Claude gave birth to Princess Louise in August 1515, which means that even if François dies in January, she's possibly already pregnant (assuming Louise wasn't prem). And Claude's gonna be sequestered until August, to make sure she's not carrying a dauphin/duke of Brittany. Once it's clear that she's only birthed a girl, the machinery of government is likely to kick into action.
 
Not especially. AFAIK, Renée held her tongue over Brittany whilst her sister's descent lived. So, here, where if Claude retires to a convent or simply just to the Chateau de Nantes or some other hotel particulier in Paris, and remains duchess in name only, I can't see Renée behaving differently. What's interesting would be if Renée follows her OTL Reformist bent (she was in contract with Calvin among others) as queen consort of France "la Reine des Huguenots"?

Claude died in 1524 - her already poor health ruined by childbirth - so as a nun she might live longer., but Renée might not necessarily succeed her. Claude gave birth to Princess Louise in August 1515, which means that even if François dies in January, she's possibly already pregnant (assuming Louise wasn't prem). And Claude's gonna be sequestered until August, to make sure she's not carrying a dauphin/duke of Brittany. Once it's clear that she's only birthed a girl, the machinery of government is likely to kick into action.

Intriguing, meaning that Louise should she survive is heir to Brittany, which could see a betrothal to any son of Charles Alencon or any son of Charles Bourbon non?
 
Earliest Possible marriage Age was what at that Time in France 12 or 14?
Charles d'alenceon kicked the bucket 1525 without any help, married to Francis sister , no Kids from him but she later on had Jeanne D'Albret in her second Marriage, Queen of Navarre.

Second in line for the Throne is Charles Bourbon Montpensier b. 1490 married his Cousin Suzanne de Bourbon, 3 Kids but None got over the first year and Suzanne died 1521, Charles was shot in front of Rome 1527. Cancel that and he could marry Princess Louise 1529.

next in line to be French King is Charles Bourbon, Duc de Vendome who married Francoise d'Alenceon (sister to our first Charly and his heiress) in 1513 and had a couple of Kids with her including Antoine, who later became husband to Jeanne Queen de Navarre and Daddy to Henri IV.


It is so ANNOYING that the Nobility nearly uses all the same Names.
 
Earliest Possible marriage Age was what at that Time in France 12 or 14?
Charles d'alenceon kicked the bucket 1525 without any help, married to Francis sister , no Kids from him but she later on had Jeanne D'Albret in her second Marriage, Queen of Navarre.

Second in line for the Throne is Charles Bourbon Montpensier b. 1490 married his Cousin Suzanne de Bourbon, 3 Kids but None got over the first year and Suzanne died 1521, Charles was shot in front of Rome 1527. Cancel that and he could marry Princess Louise 1529.

next in line to be French King is Charles Bourbon, Duc de Vendome who married Francoise d'Alenceon (sister to our first Charly and his heiress) in 1513 and had a couple of Kids with her including Antoine, who later became husband to Jeanne Queen de Navarre and Daddy to Henri IV.


It is so ANNOYING that the Nobility nearly uses all the same Names.

Having a son of Charles and Suzanne survive would be cool
 
Montpensier Charles and Suzanne as in the OTL Couple, or one of the other Charleses:openedeyewink:?

edit oh i see survive, so yeah OTL couple.

Yeah i agree, looked like this Charles was a non nonsense kinda guy, would have been a cool King de France.
 
It is so ANNOYING that the Nobility nearly uses all the same Names.

It gets worse when you list all the heirs in 01/1515

1. Charles de Valois, Duke of Alençon
2. Charles de Bourbon, Duke of Bourbon
3. François de Bourbon, Duke of Châtellerault
4. Charles de Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme
5. Louis de Bourbon, Count of Marles
6. François de Bourbon, Count of Saint-Pol
7. Louis de Bourbon, Bishop of Laon
8. Louis de Bourbon, Prince of Roche-sur-Yon
9. Louis de Bourbon
 
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