Francis I of Austria has a son by his first wife

So marriage options for the heir, I’m thinking either Francis I otl third wife’s sister, or Maria Anna of savoy. Marie Louise perhaps to a surviving Louis XII of France
 
So marriage options for the heir, I’m thinking either Francis I otl third wife’s sister, or Maria Anna of savoy. Marie Louise perhaps to a surviving Louis XII of France

I'm confused? Franz II's third wife was the youngest daughter of the duke of Modena, and still a few years older than his eldest son. Do you mean his fourth wife, Karoline of Bavaria's (whose only full sister was married to Napoléon's stepson, and before that was engaged to the hereditary prince of Baden), half-sisters?

As to Marie Louise's husband, I'm hoping that's a typo and you don't mean to marry her to a guy who's been dead for almost 300 years at the time of their marriage.
 
I'm confused? Franz II's third wife was the youngest daughter of the duke of Modena, and still a few years older than his eldest son. Do you mean his fourth wife, Karoline of Bavaria's (whose only full sister was married to Napoléon's stepson, and before that was engaged to the hereditary prince of Baden), half-sisters?

As to Marie Louise's husband, I'm hoping that's a typo and you don't mean to marry her to a guy who's been dead for almost 300 years at the time of their marriage.
Yeah sorry meant his fourth wife,
And lol yes meant Louis XVII not louis xii.
 
Yeah sorry meant his fourth wife,
And lol yes meant Louis XVII not louis xii.

The question comes up of how you plan to wed her to Louis XVII rather than Napoléon. In the second half of the first decade of the 19th century Louis XVII has no prospects. Everybody (except Britain and the Bourbons) had sort of made peace with the fact that Napoléon was here to stay. By 1815, she's already in her mid-twenties (spinster age by then). Marrying her to the king of France in exile during Napoléon's reign is going to be seen as needlessly antagonistic towards the French. And by the end of it, it's too late. Not to mention, there's no way that the king of France is marrying the former empress of the French. Marie Luise didn't apply for an annulment OTL, despite the fact that she would've most likely very easily gotten one. It was more the fact that nobody in Europe wanted to touch her with a barge pole for who she had been. Byron made a rather sharp pen portrait of her after seeing her on the arm of the duke of Wellington at the Congress of Verona:

Byron said:
Enough of this – a sight more mournful woos
The averted eye of the reluctant muse.
The imperial daughter, the imperial bride,
The imperial victim – sacrifice to pride;

The mother of the hero’s hope, the boy,
The young Astyanax of modern Troy;
The still pale shadow of the loftiest queen
That earth has yet to see, or e’er hath seen;

She flits amid the phantoms of the hour,
The theme of pity, and the wreck of power.
Oh, cruel mockery! Could not Austria spare
A daughter? What did France’s widow there?

Her fitter place was by St. Helen’s wave,
Her only throne is in Napoleon’s grave.
But no, — she still must hold a petty reign,
Flank’d by her formidable chamberlain;
The martial Argus, whose not hundred eyes
Must watch her through these paltry pageantries.
What though she share no more, and shared in vain,
A sway surpassing that of Charlemagne,
Which swept from Moscow to the southern seas
Yet still she rules the pastoral realm of cheese,
Where Parma views the traveller resort
To note the trappings of her mimic court.
But she appears! Verona sees her shorn
Of all her beams – while nations gaze and mourn –
Ere yet her husband’s ashes have had time
To chill in their inhospitable clime;
(If e’er those awful ashes can grow cold;
But no, – their embers soon will burst the mould; )
She comes! – the Andromache (but not Racine’s,
Nor Homer’s) Lo! on Pyrrhus’ arm she leans!
Yes! the right arm, yet red from Waterloo,
Which cut her lord’s half shattered sceptre through,
Is offered and accepted! Could a slave
Do more? or less? – and he in his new grave!
Her eye, her cheek, betray no inward strife,
And the Ex-empress grows as Ex a wife!
So much for human ties in royal breasts!
Why spare men’s feelings, when their own are jests?
 
The question comes up of how you plan to wed her to Louis XVII rather than Napoléon. In the second half of the first decade of the 19th century Louis XVII has no prospects. Everybody (except Britain and the Bourbons) had sort of made peace with the fact that Napoléon was here to stay. By 1815, she's already in her mid-twenties (spinster age by then). Marrying her to the king of France in exile during Napoléon's reign is going to be seen as needlessly antagonistic towards the French. And by the end of it, it's too late. Not to mention, there's no way that the king of France is marrying the former empress of the French. Marie Luise didn't apply for an annulment OTL, despite the fact that she would've most likely very easily gotten one. It was more the fact that nobody in Europe wanted to touch her with a barge pole for who she had been. Byron made a rather sharp pen portrait of her after seeing her on the arm of the duke of Wellington at the Congress of Verona:
Well one thing I’d been considering was making this part of a wider timeline, where either the French Revolution never happens or it fails early on, thus meaning an earlier restoration
 
You can be sure that her mother, Maria Karoline, is going to scheme scheme scheme to get her daughter married. Most likely, a match with her OTL brother-in-law the Grand Duke of Tuscany, Maria Luisa of Naples was offered for Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich at one point (though I don't think it was ever taken seriously). Which then leaves Maria Luisa without a chair, maybe she weds Carlo Felice of Savoy? IIRC, his older brother, Vittorio Emanuele I, was originally considered as a possible husband for three of Maria Theresia's granddaughters - Maria Teresa of Tuscany (OTL queen of Saxony), Maria Teresa d'Este (his OTL wife) and Maria Teresa of Naples (Karoline rejected the offer out of hand, saying her eldest daughter could do better than a mere duke's younger brother). Perhaps she's more willing to agree that he weds Maria Luisa. Otherwise, most likely, Maria Teresa to Ferdinando III and Maria Luisa to the duke of Teschen, sounds about right.
I think who Maria Luisa Amelia was always destined to the future granduke of Tuscany and the daughter proposed to Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich was one of the younger sisters (Maria Amalia, OTL Queen of the French is the most likely, or either Maria Cristina, OTL Queen of Sardinia or Maria Antonia, OTL Princess of Asturias). Archduke Karl became confirmed as heir of Teschen only in 1792 after his parents' deaths and the relationship between Maria Carolina and her elder sister Maria Christina was pretty strained so a match between the designated heir of Teschen and any of his cousins is pretty unlikely (excluding the daughters of Ferdinand so either the OTL Empress Maria Ludovica or her elder sister Maria Teresa (if she do not marry her OTL husband).

Louis XVII is more likely to marry one of the princesses of Naples than an Austrian Archduchess (either Antonia or Amalia who are agewise acceptable for both brothers)
 
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I think who Maria Luisa Amelia was always destined to the future granduke of Tuscany and the daughter proposed to Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich was one of the younger sisters (Maria Amalia, OTL Queen of the French is the most likely, or either Maria Cristina, OTL Queen of Sardinia or Maria Antonia, OTL Princess of Asturias). Archduke Karl became confirmed as heir of Teschen only in 1792 after his parents' deaths and the relationship between Maria Carolina and her elder sister Maria Christina was pretty strained so a match between the designated heir of Teschen and any of his cousins is pretty unlikely (excluding the daughters of Ferdinand so either the OTL Empress Maria Ludovica or her elder sister Maria Teresa (if she do not marry her OTL husband).

Louis XVII is more likely to marry one of the princesses of Naples than an Austrian Archduchess (either Antonia or Amalia who are agewise acceptable for both brothers)
Intriguing is the Naples marriage due to how unpopular his mother was?
 
Intriguing is the Naples marriage due to how unpopular his mother was?
No, no mostly because Marie Antoinette and Maria Karoline were really close and so both would strongly favored a match between the Dauphin and a daughter of Karoline. Who she is really eligible and appropriate because she also happen to be a princess from another royal branch of the house of Bourbon is just a plus.
At the same time Madame Royal will still marry the Duke of Angouleme because Marie Antoniette want keep her beloved daughter close and spare her from the suffering she had when she left Austria for France
 
No, no mostly because Marie Antoinette and Maria Karoline were really close and so both would strongly favored a match between the Dauphin and a daughter of Karoline. Who she is really eligible and appropriate because she also happen to be a princess from another royal branch of the house of Bourbon is just a plus.
At the same time Madame Royal will still marry the Duke of Angouleme because Marie Antoniette want keep her beloved daughter close and spare her from the suffering she had when she left Austria for France
Oh interesting, would that be allowed by Louis XVII though? As if he’s the king surely he could overrule his mother and send his sister for a diplomatic marriage?
 
No, no mostly because Marie Antoinette and Maria Karoline were really close and so both would strongly favored a match between the Dauphin and a daughter of Karoline. Who she is really eligible and appropriate because she also happen to be a princess from another royal branch of the house of Bourbon is just a plus.
At the same time Madame Royal will still marry the Duke of Angouleme because Marie Antoniette want keep her beloved daughter close and spare her from the suffering she had when she left Austria for France

Actually, from what I've read about it, while that was Antoinette's personal opinion (that a domestic match would be better), she also knew that it was unlikely to happen: the Crown Princes of Naples and Sweden (or rather the latter's father) had already come calling, and there were matches talked of either with a hypothetical Spanish infante or an Austrian archduke. She was against the idea of her daughter being sacrificed, but if the king - whether her husband or her son - decided that abroad Madame Royal would marry, then it wasn't as though Antoinette really had a leg to stand on.

Besides, considering the circumstances for her OTL match to Angoulême (who wasn't the domestic prince in mind, but rather the future Louis Philippe - as much as Antoinette disliked his father. Angoulême was rather small fry while Antoinette's sons lived) and the need for allies in the 1790s (France had wasted three princes(ses) in the previous generation on Savoy, and Antoinette herself had supported Mme Élisabeth not marrying, although she'd likewise blocked her from becoming a nun as Babette had wanted to), I don't really see Madame Royal being allowed to wed in France.
 
Oh interesting, would that be allowed by Louis XVII though? As if he’s the king surely he could overrule his mother and send his sister for a diplomatic marriage?
No, unlikely. And he had not really either much options as suitable husbands for her nor the strength to oppose to almost all his family, and marrying her to Angouleme was va good system to strenghten the relationship in the family who was likely a little strained and if Louis XVII was the younger brother as OTL Angouleme's was the (eventual but almost sure) next in line so this match would have already happened before he had the age for forcing his will (that is likely also if we are talking about Louis joseph and not Louis Charles as both Madame Royal and Angouleme were older than him)
 
Actually, from what I've read about it, while that was Antoinette's personal opinion (that a domestic match would be better), she also knew that it was unlikely to happen: the Crown Princes of Naples and Sweden (or rather the latter's father) had already come calling, and there were matches talked of either with a hypothetical Spanish infante or an Austrian archduke. She was against the idea of her daughter being sacrificed, but if the king - whether her husband or her son - decided that abroad Madame Royal would marry, then it wasn't as though Antoinette really had a leg to stand on.

Besides, considering the circumstances for her OTL match to Angoulême (who wasn't the domestic prince in mind, but rather the future Louis Philippe - as much as Antoinette disliked his father. Angoulême was rather small fry while Antoinette's sons lived) and the need for allies in the 1790s (France had wasted three princes(ses) in the previous generation on Savoy, and Antoinette herself had supported Mme Élisabeth not marrying, although she'd likewise blocked her from becoming a nun as Babette had wanted to), I don't really see Madame Royal being allowed to wed in France.
Thanks for the info about Orleans because I thinked who the proposed husband was Angouleme, for the others Carlos IV's eldest surviving son was too young for her (he is six years younger than her) and the heirs of Sweden or Naples are more likely than a junior prince from Austria.
 
Thanks for the info about Orleans because I thinked who the proposed husband was Angouleme, for the others Carlos IV's eldest surviving son was too young for her (he is six years younger than her) and the heirs of Sweden or Naples are more likely than a junior prince from Austria.

As I say, according to Nagel's bio on Marie Thérèse, the Spanish were desirous of a match between her and a son of the prince of the Asturias, but I guess when the age gap got bigger and no infante appeared, they (the French) sort of lost interest. That said, Godoy apparently tried to push for a match between the future Fernando VII and Madame Royale while she was in limbo in Vienna, but I don't think anybody really took it seriously.
 
As I say, according to Nagel's bio on Marie Thérèse, the Spanish were desirous of a match between her and a son of the prince of the Asturias, but I guess when the age gap got bigger and no infante appeared, they (the French) sort of lost interest. That said, Godoy apparently tried to push for a match between the future Fernando VII and Madame Royale while she was in limbo in Vienna, but I don't think anybody really took it seriously.
Interesting, would a marriage to Sweden really have happened? Would Madame have had to convert ?
 
Interesting, would a marriage to Sweden really have happened? Would Madame have had to convert ?
I don't think it would've happened in the OTL scenario, TBH. Gustaf IV proved a difficult customer. He originally was to marry Alexandra Pavlovna, and while in love with her, turned her down because her grandma, Ekaterina II, had inserted a clause in the marriage contract allowing her to remain Orthodox "I can never give my people a queen who is not Protestant" he exclaimed and stormed out of St. Petersburg. Then he was contracted to Friederike of Baden. But before Alexandra, he'd been offered Luise of Mecklenburg (I'm not sure if this was the OTL queen of Prussia - since this could be a fun little POD - or her cousin, Luise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (OTL duchess of Gotha)), but turned her down "because she was not beautiful". Maybe if Gustaf III (a sadly underused figure on the alt-history board, and my favourite Swedish king of his dynasty) had lived, we might see a different upbringing for Gustaf IV and thus young Gus would be willing to marry a Catholic (who's not exactly beautiful. Pretty, but not beautiful).
 
the daughter proposed to Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich was one of the younger sisters

I think you maybe right, since the match would've been considered in the early-mid 1790s and by then Maria Luisa was already married (September 1790). Still, it would make for fun times if poor Paul had a Bourbon daughter-in-law and a Habsburg son-in-law. The story goes that Ekaterina invited Juliane of Coburg and two of her sisters to Russia, Sophie (OTL countess of Mensdorff-Pouilly) and Antoinette (OTL duchess of Württemberg) (along with their darling mamma as chaperone). However, when the Coburgs arrived at the palace at which Ekaterina and Konstantin were staying, the girls did not make the best of first impressions. Ekaterina and Konstantin were watching from an upstairs window as the girls got out of the coach. Sophie stumbled as she did so, while Antoinette's exit was equally as ungraceful. Juliane alighted without a problem. Konstantin turned to his grandmother and said: "All right, if I must marry. I'll marry the monkey [Juliane]."
 
I don't think it would've happened in the OTL scenario, TBH. Gustaf IV proved a difficult customer. He originally was to marry Alexandra Pavlovna, and while in love with her, turned her down because her grandma, Ekaterina II, had inserted a clause in the marriage contract allowing her to remain Orthodox "I can never give my people a queen who is not Protestant" he exclaimed and stormed out of St. Petersburg. Then he was contracted to Friederike of Baden. But before Alexandra, he'd been offered Luise of Mecklenburg (I'm not sure if this was the OTL queen of Prussia - since this could be a fun little POD - or her cousin, Luise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (OTL duchess of Gotha)), but turned her down "because she was not beautiful". Maybe if Gustaf III (a sadly underused figure on the alt-history board, and my favourite Swedish king of his dynasty) had lived, we might see a different upbringing for Gustaf IV and thus young Gus would be willing to marry a Catholic (who's not exactly beautiful. Pretty, but not beautiful).
Hmm interesting seeing Gustav iii survive is something I’ve always wanted to see
 
So Louis Joseph to marry his cousin of Naples.

Madame royal either marrying domestically or marrying a prince of Spain


Gustav iii not dying in 1792
 
So Louis Joseph to marry his cousin of Naples.

Madame royal either marrying domestically or marrying a prince of Spain


Gustav iii not dying in 1792

Prince of Spain - unless you're letting Carlos Clemente survive, and him being more his grandfather's grandson than his parents' son, (not impossible, since Carlos was born in 1771, so he'd be 18 by the time grandpa kicks, as opposed to his younger brothers, born in 1780, 1783 and 1784 who were still in single digits) - is out.

Most likely match is the Neapolitan crown prince or an Austrian archduke
 
Prince of Spain - unless you're letting Carlos Clemente survive, and him being more his grandfather's grandson than his parents' son, (not impossible, since Carlos was born in 1771, so he'd be 18 by the time grandpa kicks, as opposed to his younger brothers, born in 1780, 1783 and 1784 who were still in single digits) - is out.

Most likely match is the Neapolitan crown prince or an Austrian archduke
Hmm Clemente could be good
 
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