Francis Ferdinand, son of Philip IV of Spain survives

Vitruvius

Donor
I'm sure the Infante Ferdinand could have married, Cardinal or not it could have been arranged if need be, but aside from his sister fancifully discussing a marriage with the Grande Mademoiselle (which was I think done just for political reasons to stir the pot so to speak) I don't think it was ever really considered.

As to Francis Ferdinand I now think it might actually be more likely if for no other reason than to take Catherine Braganza off the marriage market. IIRC Philip was looking for someone, anyone, to marry her to prevent the Portuguese forming an alliance with England so I could definitely see her marrying Francis and them becoming Regents in the Netherlands.
 
I'm sure the Infante Ferdinand could have married, Cardinal or not it could have been arranged if need be, but aside from his sister fancifully discussing a marriage with the Grande Mademoiselle (which was I think done just for political reasons to stir the pot so to speak) I don't think it was ever really considered.

As to Francis Ferdinand I now think it might actually be more likely if for no other reason than to take Catherine Braganza off the marriage market. IIRC Philip was looking for someone, anyone, to marry her to prevent the Portuguese forming an alliance with England so I could definitely see her marrying Francis and them becoming Regents in the Netherlands.
Oh interesting, would john if agree to that considering the war he was fighting?
 
So say Philip dies when his own son his young, Ferdinand could marry then?
It depends.If he returns to Spain it is probable.If he stay in Flanders Madrid would try to block any marriages as they believed he was plotting to become king of Flanders
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Well it would probably require an earlier end to the War. Assuming it goes as OTL (not guaranteed) and here Philip decides to make peace after a defeat at the Lines of Elvas or some equivalent the marriage would probably be part of a settlement. Maybe Philip recognizes Portugal but tries to keep it isolated/in Spanish orbit. A marriage to a Spanish infante keeps them close to Spain while preventing a marriage with a potential foreign ally like England or France. Alternatively Francis Ferdinand could get a French marriage for similar reasons. Maybe a double marriage of Maria Theresa to Louis XIV and Francis Ferdinand to Anne Marie Louise d'Orleans or one of her younger sisters. The French dowry perhaps propping up the Spanish rule in the Netherlands (where I assume Francis Ferdinand would be Regent).
 
Well it would probably require an earlier end to the War. Assuming it goes as OTL (not guaranteed) and here Philip decides to make peace after a defeat at the Lines of Elvas or some equivalent the marriage would probably be part of a settlement. Maybe Philip recognizes Portugal but tries to keep it isolated/in Spanish orbit. A marriage to a Spanish infante keeps them close to Spain while preventing a marriage with a potential foreign ally like England or France. Alternatively Francis Ferdinand could get a French marriage for similar reasons. Maybe a double marriage of Maria Theresa to Louis XIV and Francis Ferdinand to Anne Marie Louise d'Orleans or one of her younger sisters. The French dowry perhaps propping up the Spanish rule in the Netherlands (where I assume Francis Ferdinand would be Regent).
Interesting the French marriage does seem likely. Would Henrietta if savoy not Ben considered then?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Interesting the French marriage does seem likely. Would Henrietta if savoy not Ben considered then?

I'm not sure there's much to gain from a marriage with Savoy and more to the point Christine, the Dowager Duchess/Regent, will not want it as she was pretty anti-Spanish dating back to the Piedmontese Civil War. I think the natural inclination would be for Francis Ferdinand as a younger brother to go into the Church, changing course to marry only for the most paramount diplomacy, that is something involved in ending one of Spain's two biggest ongoing crises, the Franco-Spanish War or the Portuguese Restoration War.
 
I'm not sure there's much to gain from a marriage with Savoy and more to the point Christine, the Dowager Duchess/Regent, will not want it as she was pretty anti-Spanish dating back to the Piedmontese Civil War. I think the natural inclination would be for Francis Ferdinand as a younger brother to go into the Church, changing course to marry only for the most paramount diplomacy, that is something involved in ending one of Spain's two biggest ongoing crises, the Franco-Spanish War or the Portuguese Restoration War.
I, still not sure why the habsburgs insisted on sending sons into the church. Given their fertility habits seems the most retarded thing ever
 
The Cardinal-Infante Fernando only took minor orders (as opposed to say Nicolas II of Lorraine or his uncle, Archduke Albrecht IIRC, I think Leopold Wilhelm of Austria was likewise only a minor order cleric). He wouldn't need the pope to actually release him from orders in conclave (as with de Lorraine). This was why the marriage plans between he and la Grande Mademoiselle were regarded with alarm by Madrid (something that wouldn't have been a concern given the fact that the pope was part-Spanish (Innocent X) had Spain wanted to prevent Fernando's release)
 
The Cardinal-Infante Fernando only took minor orders (as opposed to say Nicolas II of Lorraine or his uncle, Archduke Albrecht IIRC, I think Leopold Wilhelm of Austria was likewise only a minor order cleric). He wouldn't need the pope to actually release him from orders in conclave (as with de Lorraine). This was why the marriage plans between he and la Grande Mademoiselle were regarded with alarm by Madrid (something that wouldn't have been a concern given the fact that the pope was part-Spanish (Innocent X) had Spain wanted to prevent Fernando's release)

Okay interesting, were the alarm bells ringing so loudly because Olivares had convinced Philip IV not to trust his brothers?
 
Also note careers in the church were seen as ways to give second and extra sons who presumably would not inherit anything a source of income and self sufficiency.

But I think court intrigue might've been the real issue with Philip IV and his brothers concerning marrying them off and parcelling out territory.
 
Also note careers in the church were seen as ways to give second and extra sons who presumably would not inherit anything a source of income and self sufficiency.

But I think court intrigue might've been the real issue with Philip IV and his brothers concerning marrying them off and parcelling out territory.

Hmm interesting, would such a thing be prominent with Philip IV and his sons?
 
Hmm interesting, would such a thing be prominent with Philip IV and his sons?

It was still a thing in the 18th c. Bourbon Spain. When Infant Gabriel, the first junior infant in Spain who did not become a clergymen or a foreign king, was granted a mayorazgo, it was a secularization of the priory of Castilla of the Order of Malta. Had not the papacy permitted it, the Spanish Crown would not have enough ressources to grant second sons allowances. Previously, the same priory of Castilla had been granted to princes (or semi, like D. Juan Jose), as an ecclesiastical benefice, not a secular one. The French Crown did the same with the priory of France, used as a supporting grant for impoverished princes and bastard sons of princes.
 
It was still a thing in the 18th c. Bourbon Spain. When Infant Gabriel, the first junior infant in Spain who did not become a clergymen or a foreign king, was granted a mayorazgo, it was a secularization of the priory of Castilla of the Order of Malta. Had not the papacy permitted it, the Spanish Crown would not have enough ressources to grant second sons allowances. Previously, the same priory of Castilla had been granted to princes (or semi, like D. Juan Jose), as an ecclesiastical benefice, not a secular one. The French Crown did the same with the priory of France, used as a supporting grant for impoverished princes and bastard sons of princes.
Oh that's quite interesting
 
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