Francis Ferdinand, son of Philip IV of Spain survives

So, we all know that Philip IV of Spain had one surviving son by his first wife Elisabeth of France, that son being Balthasar Carlos who died in 1646. My query is this if Philip and Elisabeth's second son Francis Ferdinand (b.1634) had survived also, would Felipe have been in as desperate a situation to remarry, or would he simply have pawned Francis off to marry Balthasar Carlos's intended bride?

And if Carlos himself had not died in 1646, what would the dynamics at the Spanish court be like with two surviving songs?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
I would think that Francis Ferdinand would marry Mariana, the logic behind the match is still there, and the ages still line up. Philip probably does still remarry as he only has two, still quite young, surviving children. Only now he marries someone else. Maybe Isabella Clara of the Tyrolean branch of the family. If he waits until he's made peace with France then the Grande Mademoiselle becomes a possibility but I doubt he waits that long.

I think if both sons live then Francis is probably put into the Church, like his uncle Ferdinand, and becomes governor of some Spanish territory. How that works probably depends on the personalities of the two sons for which we have very info to go on.
 
I would think that Francis Ferdinand would marry Mariana, the logic behind the match is still there, and the ages still line up. Philip probably does still remarry as he only has two, still quite young, surviving children. Only now he marries someone else. Maybe Isabella Clara of the Tyrolean branch of the family. If he waits until he's made peace with France then the Grande Mademoiselle becomes a possibility but I doubt he waits that long.

I think if both sons live then Francis is probably put into the Church, like his uncle Ferdinand, and becomes governor of some Spanish territory. How that works probably depends on the personalities of the two sons for which we have very info to go on.
Interesting wouldn’t putting Francis in the church be detirimentsl though considering there’s only two male habsburgs I. The Spanish line other than Philip?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Yeah, but the Spanish Habsburgs weren't really known for making the best decisions for perpetuating the dynasty. I don't just mean the marriages. Philip IV had no cousins or male relations besides his brothers and the line of Charles V had almost ended before the birth of his father, Philip III, rather late in Philip II's life yet there didn't seem to be any concern about his brothers marrying and as I mentioned Ferdinand was made a cardinal. So yeah, it would probably be a good idea for both sons to marry quickly but I don't see them prioritizing marriage for a younger son.
 
Yeah, but the Spanish Habsburgs weren't really known for making the best decisions for perpetuating the dynasty. I don't just mean the marriages. Philip IV had no cousins or male relations besides his brothers and the line of Charles V had almost ended before the birth of his father, Philip III, rather late in Philip II's life yet there didn't seem to be any concern about his brothers marrying and as I mentioned Ferdinand was made a cardinal. So yeah, it would probably be a good idea for both sons to marry quickly but I don't see them prioritizing marriage for a younger son.
Alright this is true, I suppose if Philip dies before his sons are adults, the emphasis grows?
 
Francis would most likely become governor of the Habsburg Netherlands, instead of his bastard brother, John of Austria the Younger.

Marriages
- Portuguese princesses, Joana, Princess of Beira or Catherine, who in OTL became Queen of England
- Henriette Adelaide of Savoy
- Maria Leopoldine of Austria
- Henrietta of England

- a second marriage to Mary of Modena before 1671 could be interesting.
Oh interesting, Joanna princess of Beira would be fascinating as part of a peace deal. Failing that Maria leopoldkne sounds likely.

Would he remain simply governor of the Netherlands or become sovereign in his own right?
 
Oh interesting, Joanna princess of Beira would be fascinating as part of a peace deal. Failing that Maria leopoldkne sounds likely.

Would he remain simply governor of the Netherlands or become sovereign in his own right?[/QUOTEhgh Henriette I’d savoy would be fascinating also for the butterflies that produces
 
Oh interesting, Joanna princess of Beira would be fascinating as part of a peace deal. Failing that Maria leopoldkne sounds likely.
all of them have their own quirks Ands will bring their own twist to any time line.

Would he remain simply governor of the Netherlands or become sovereign in his own right?
If he outlives his brother and father, then he has a stronger claim than any brothers born after him. As well as any sons he has.
 
all of them have their own quirks Ands will bring their own twist to any time line.


If he outlives his brother and father, then he has a stronger claim than any brothers born after him. As well as any sons he has.
This is true. I take it Philip,would want the Netherlands to remai. Part of the Spanish crown then and not split them off as his grandfather did
 
This is true. I take it Philip,would want the Netherlands to remai. Part of the Spanish crown then and not split them off as his grandfather did
Due to the distance it’s hard to keep a strong union, however what Francis could do is keep them close by splitting the lands between his children
 
Due to the distance it’s hard to keep a strong union, however what Francis could do is keep them close by splitting the lands between his children
Indeed this is true. And in a scenario where Balthasar Carlos survives, I do think it would make sense if perhaps did split the lands
 
Yeah, but the Spanish Habsburgs weren't really known for making the best decisions for perpetuating the dynasty. I don't just mean the marriages. Philip IV had no cousins or male relations besides his brothers and the line of Charles V had almost ended before the birth of his father, Philip III, rather late in Philip II's life yet there didn't seem to be any concern about his brothers marrying and as I mentioned Ferdinand was made a cardinal. So yeah, it would probably be a good idea for both sons to marry quickly but I don't see them prioritizing marriage for a younger son.
Ferdinal was a cardinal and a bishop but not a priest. He could have technically married if I recall correctly
 
Wouldn’t have need to give up orders?
I mean the Pope was basically a pawn at that point. Giving none priests the cardinalcy or appointing them as bishops was not uncommon in the XVII century. Ferdinand was a deacon not a priest and I think he only took minor orders. He was a cardinal-deacon which I don't even know if they still exist today.
 
I mean the Pope was basically a pawn at that point. Giving none priests the cardinalcy or appointing them as bishops was not uncommon in the XVII century. Ferdinand was a deacon not a priest and I think he only took minor orders. He was a cardinal-deacon which I don't even know if they still exist today.
Ahhh I see, so him marrying is possible?
 
Ahhh I see, so him marrying is possible?
I think so. My knowledge about deacons comes from what I learnt in catechesis before my confirmation. Permanent deacons can marry. I don't know if that was the case in the XVII century but I am inclined to think so. Phillip was really jealous of Ferdinand to the point he was about to depose him before he died,despite being an incredible military leader and a competent governor. That explains why he never got married as his brother peobably blocked most possible matches.
 
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