France win the French and Indian War

What would have happened if the French had won the French and Indian War? Would we all be French?

That depends on the degree to which they won. It also depends on what level of victory. If it is defeat in Europe, but victory here, that is different than the opposite, or even both.

Since you said the French and Indian War, I will assume that you at least mean in North America.

A simple victory would mean nothing more than New France preserving its territorial integrity. A slightly greater one would involve a conquest of most of New York, what would later become the state of Vermont, as well as Western Virginia, as those were two areas focused on by the French attackers, especially the first two.

I believe the greatest the French could hope for would be the capture of New England, as well as the small, relatively unpopulated areas of Canada controlled by the British. They simply didn't have the manpower to take the middle colonies and the south.
 
I find it doubtful that the British would give up her colonies on the Eastern Seaboard as easily as France gave up hers. There were many, many more British Subjects living in the Americas than there were French Subjects.

We have to look at this from a global perspective (since the French and Indian War was in fact part of a near global conflict (i.e. the Seven Years War). Essentially, the French did not concentrate much of their army in North America during the war, using it on the continent against Prussia and Hanover. Had Empress Elizabeth of Russia not died when Russia was on the verge of defeating Prussia, it seems likely (to me at least :)) that Britain and Prussia would have had to sue for peace agains the Russian, Austrian, French and Spanish Alliance they fought. In the New World, I suspect that the British would have been allowed to keep most of the 13 colonies, at least to the Appalachians. France would have claimed the Ohio Valley and the parts of Canada it lost in 1713.

With a loss in the War, I suspect that the American Revolution never happens. The American Colonies would have felt far more dependent on the British for protection when the French were on their border. Likewise, with a victory in the French and Indian War, and no American Revolution to bankrupt France, I think the French Revolution might likely have been avoided. At this point though, we have so many butterflies going it gets hard to see what happens next. France and England certainly would have fought again, though this time France being more powerful might have found countries like Austria and/or Russia siding with England to balance French power....

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Bill
 

67th Tigers

Banned
A victory for France in the Seven Years War (of which the F&IW was a part) is hegemony in Europe (and possibly new territories in Germany), plus retaining their colonies in NA, their territories in India and probably gaining some of the Sugar Islands.

It'd be a very different world long run to be sure.
 
In the maericas, its likely that the Iriqouis would be significantly weaker, and the Huron and other French-allied tribes would be sinificantly more powerful, severely altering the balance of powe rin the Americas.
 
All that would have happened (New World wise) Was that there would be French in the continent, possibly keeping the American colonists prefering the better of two evils. However, it is also possible that there would be even more debt and oppression of the American colonists, thus even greater encouragement for a Revolution. Then there would have been French assistance right there.
 
That depends on the degree to which they won. It also depends on what level of victory. If it is defeat in Europe, but victory here, that is different than the opposite, or even both.

Since you said the French and Indian War, I will assume that you at least mean in North America.

A simple victory would mean nothing more than New France preserving its territorial integrity. A slightly greater one would involve a conquest of most of New York, what would later become the state of Vermont, as well as Western Virginia, as those were two areas focused on by the French attackers, especially the first two.

I believe the greatest the French could hope for would be the capture of New England, as well as the small, relatively unpopulated areas of Canada controlled by the British. They simply didn't have the manpower to take the middle colonies and the south.
Hm... assuming the best case France-wins-everything scenario, I think French New England could get very ugly, depending on how the French decide to enforce their rule there...
 
"oppression of the American colonists" I get slighly annoyed by the idea of the cruely treated American colonists under their evil moustache twirling Brit overlords. The Revolution was basically a succesful power grab with some good propoganda, if it was anything deeper it wouldnever have achieved funding and backing from Britains nemies. The idea of the revolution as a oble crusade causes me no end of twitching.
 
"oppression of the American colonists" I get slighly annoyed by the idea of the cruely treated American colonists under their evil moustache twirling Brit overlords. The Revolution was basically a succesful power grab with some good propoganda, if it was anything deeper it wouldnever have achieved funding and backing from Britains nemies. The idea of the revolution as a oble crusade causes me no end of twitching.

Jimbob, with respect, while I would agree that the English were hardly tyrants, at least the way we would define tyrants today, the historical record suggests that the American Colonists did in fact feel that there rights were being ignored by the British.

Modern cynicism suggests that anyone who seeks to overthrow those currently in power must seek power themselves. But looking at the history of the American Revolution suggests that this was not the sole reason for the Americans. Consider the fact that George Washington was essentially offered the throne by the Continental Army and he turned it down. Likewise, he and the other early Presidents all chose to not run for office after two terms. Finally of course, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights went a long way to limiting the power of the Government in ways that no state had ever really limited its government before.

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Bill
 
Hm... assuming the best case France-wins-everything scenario, I think French New England could get very ugly, depending on how the French decide to enforce their rule there...

Supposing the french deal with New England as they dealt with Alsace when they conquered it - and there's really no reason not to; they knew it worked well - ' a l'instar de l'etranger effectif ', I don't see why it should get ugly.

Another point is that, if the french win the 7 year war, they will get India and keep Louisiana ( which includes Ohio and Mississipe, BTW ), Senegal and Antilles, in addition to Canada and new England. And Florida stays Spanish.

At this point british North America is encircled between the french, the Spanish and the sea and the french colonial empire is huge and profitable. France may even enlarge itself in Germany if successful enough.

Butterflies from this are Huge. American revolution is negated. French revolution is changed beyond recognition. OTOH, a new war between Uk and France is unavoidable. But France may have the better navy this time round ( more money + Suffren coming into his own ). Could make an interesting TL. Maybe the british support a revolution to Establish a republic in the french American colonies....:-D
 
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If the French Win then they have to win in Europe...though all that really means
is knocking out Prussia and they will then effectively win. If Britain doesn't ask for terms then the French will have stronger gains in Europe and probably India. if they ask when Prussia leaves then the French will keep their influence in the Princely states of S. India , probably the Austrian Netherlands with Austria regaining Silesia.

Even if the French have lost in NAm then they will get back the status quo at least on the continent. If they have won their as well. The Brits are not likely to give up New England..so the French will add some Sugar Islands and dominate the Windward Islands in the postwar.

While France will have its control of the interior confirmed it will be tenuous and contingent on their relations with the natives. They probably get Acadia back, but its not a given. Indeed the Brits are more likely to give back sparsely settled Nova Scotia in hopes of keeping some of the Windward islands that they did manage to control rather then ceding them back.

The prohibition on western settlement will have to be lifted of course in some form even if its only limited. French commercial interests on the St. Lawrence will compete directly with the HBC interests for control of the Western Fur trade. French society in New France Acadia and Louisiana while still very conservative with the Church being influential It won't be so conservative and royalist as in the post conquest period. As all French merchants and commercial interests will survive and be influential in driving policy in the colonies.

So yes France will be stronger and wealthier but also have greater interests to attend to. Whether the Ancien regime faces its financial crisis really depend s on how soon the next conflict with the British for dominance occurs.

But the balance of power in Europe, N America and India is profoundly changed. the Bourbon family compact will be very hard to defeat later in the century if it manages to avoid financial crises and social unrest leading to revolution.
 
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