France Stays In Eurofighter, 1980s

MacCaulay

Banned
I pitched this awhile ago, but there weren't many takers. I'm going to pitch it again, since I think the makeup of the board has altered a bit and peoples' minds might be in a different place.




...in the early 80s, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, and West Germany were part of a design syndicate known as the Future European Fighter Aircraft program. The French really wanted a carrier aircraft out of the FEFA programme, which was something the rest of the countries weren't so sure about.

After some other disagreements, the French left the program and it fell apart. The other countries got back together, and started a new program called Eurofighter. The French, of course, developed the Rafale.

So I ask you (and especially the Europeans of the board)...what would have been the repurcussions for the European militaries and most importantly the European economies if the French had stayed in Eurofighter?
 
First thing that comes to my mind is the RN CVF, if France stays in Eurofighter then a carrier version gets built and if a carrier version is in production when the CVF decision is made then it exerts its own pressure. Other European countries are building large flat-top ships so they may get back into the carrier game as well.
 
Sorry, I can't argue that much. I just went to the bathroom. Which engine would this European consortium use? The SNECMA M88 or the Eurojet EJ200? That's the only question I need to answer. I can't answer it and they couldn't either. The only compromise would be to use both.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Sorry, I can't argue that much. I just went to the bathroom.

You'll have to speak up: I'm wearing pants.


Okay...so how about they make it a 2-engined Typhoon, with each engine different? "But MacCaulay! That's crazy and stupid!" You all say...

"No," says I. "That's Bureaucracy."
 
I guess it wouldn't have made that much of a difference since France does cooperate in many other multi-national projects.

If you are looking for major butterflies, it could lead to a more "European" defence industry. If the project satisfied the project nations, they might decide to initiate more multi-national defence projects, perhaps over time leading to Europe designing all its own hardware with an integrated defence industry and with all European nations buying European made hardware.

This could be a cooperative effort with each country producing a part of the project or countries could specialize in certain items, for example Germany could design and build the EuroLeopard, France would design and build the Eurofighter, England the Eurocopter, Italy the Eurorifle etc....
 
You'll have to speak up: I'm wearing pants.


Okay...so how about they make it a 2-engined Typhoon, with each engine different? "But MacCaulay! That's crazy and stupid!" You all say...

"No," says I. "That's Bureaucracy."
I'm horribly afraid you might be right:) Given the crazy national allotments that went on in European procurement programmes, this is ALMOST believable.
 
I guess it wouldn't have made that much of a difference since France does cooperate in many other multi-national projects.

If you are looking for major butterflies, it could lead to a more "European" defence industry. If the project satisfied the project nations, they might decide to initiate more multi-national defence projects, perhaps over time leading to Europe designing all its own hardware with an integrated defence industry and with all European nations buying European made hardware.

This could be a cooperative effort with each country producing a part of the project or countries could specialize in certain items, for example Germany could design and build the EuroLeopard, France would design and build the Eurofighter, England the Eurocopter, Italy the Eurorifle etc....

All for a EuroArmy! :p
 
F15s and F16s can come with either the F100 or F110 so it's not as ridiculous as it sounds.
You'd probably have 2 versions (not counting trainers) being built anyway, given that the French have the Rafale-C and the Rafale-M. Possibly the carrier-capable version would have the M88 and the land-based version would have the EJ200- or they might just build both with both...
 
France stays in the Eurofighter program in the 1980s?

Then France leaves the Eurofighter program in the 1990s. :D


Even if the French stay in the Eurofighter program, there's a small chance they go ahead and develop, build and market their own aircraft, like they did when they built the Jaguar in consortium with the British.
 
I guess it wouldn't have made that much of a difference since France does cooperate in many other multi-national projects.

If you are looking for major butterflies, it could lead to a more "European" defence industry. If the project satisfied the project nations, they might decide to initiate more multi-national defence projects, perhaps over time leading to Europe designing all its own hardware with an integrated defence industry and with all European nations buying European made hardware.

This could be a cooperative effort with each country producing a part of the project or countries could specialize in certain items, for example Germany could design and build the EuroLeopard, France would design and build the Eurofighter, England the Eurocopter, Italy the Eurorifle etc....

Britain becomes the European Navy builder? :D
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I guess it wouldn't have made that much of a difference since France does cooperate in many other multi-national projects.

If you are looking for major butterflies, it could lead to a more "European" defence industry.

You do realize that the Rafale exists precisely because France dropped out of Eurofighter, don't you?
 
Perhaps the cost of only designing, proving and manufacturing one type of aircraft versus two drops the per unit cost of the Eurofighter, and makes it a more viable export option?
 
You'd probably have 2 versions (not counting trainers) being built anyway, given that the French have the Rafale-C and the Rafale-M. Possibly the carrier-capable version would have the M88 and the land-based version would have the EJ200- or they might just build both with both...
Like the differing blocks of F-16, right? The Block 50 has the F-110-GE-129, while the Block 52 has the F-100-PW-229, but are otherwise identical, save for one piece, the engine air intake.
 
If the Eurofighter had been designed with the French concerns in mind (namely, Snecma engines and carrier-capability), then there might be more of a reason for some countries, particularly the British, to go back into the business of full-blown, angled-deck aircraft carriers. (This is especially true after the Falklands.)

Most of the Europeans would not want to have the Eurofighter powered by the M88, so another powerplant for it is inevitable, which means the EJ200 probably comes anyways. With carrier usage in mind, they might want more wing area for it, too, just because that makes it easier to take off and land on a carrier.

Whether that bodes well for the rest of Europe's defense projects, I'm not really sure.
 
The raw numbers are 559 Typhoons on order and 180 Rafales, for a total of 739. But as others have said, with a larger programme comes cheaper unit costs so perhaps this number would be 800 or more. In addition the greater resources available would see more goodies come on line sooner.
 
The raw numbers are 559 Typhoons on order and 180 Rafales, for a total of 739. But as others have said, with a larger programme comes cheaper unit costs so perhaps this number would be 800 or more. In addition the greater resources available would see more goodies come on line sooner.

And with the lower costs, one can see perhaps these airplanes being exported to other nations, with countries like Morocco, Israel, South Korea and others......
 

MacCaulay

Banned
And with the lower costs, one can see perhaps these airplanes being exported to other nations, with countries like Morocco, Israel, South Korea and others......

The big one for me is Canada. It's a two engine aircraft vs. the F-35's one. And we all know that the RCAF has been a big believer in dual-engine planes.

It'd be an insane coup if the Eurofighter consortium could end up selling Typhoons on mainland North America.
 

Thande

Donor
If France stayed in then someone else would drop out, probably either us or the Germans. The project was too unwieldy and had too many competing design objectives derived from differing national interests. It's a miracle they got anything flyable out of it in OTL even without the French.
 
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