France not given an occupation zone in Germany

Say, that, De Gaulle annoys Churchill too much and Churchill agrees to Stalin's original refusal to give France an occupation zone in Germany. What happens to France and to its relations with the USA and the UK?
 
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Say, that, De Gaulle annoys Churchill too much and Churchill agrees to Stalin's original refusal to give France an occupation zone in Germany. What happens to France and to its relations with the USA and the UK?

According to this book it seems Stalin's main concern was less the actual zone and more that France would have a seat at the allied control commission.

Ultimately, it might well be that even if Churchill and Stalin disagree with a French occupation zone, the Americans might work out having a French sector within their own zone which could have covered the area of their original zone that they gave over to for the southern half of the OTL French zone. At that point the French were already in occupation of the area and it isn't as if other powers weren't allowed to participate in the occupation (but not the administration) of the various occupation zones (in particular this was done in the British zone, where there were at various times Norwegian, Danish, Canadian, Belgian and Dutch sectors; the OTL French zone also had a Luxembourgish sector and eventually the Belgian sector in the British zone got extended into the American zone itself).

So using some maps I had done some years back as a basis, this might be what things might have looked like in April 1946:

- The Allies probably cede Saar outright to French occupation as being separate from the occupation of Germany (with Luxembourg being permitted to occupy a small portion of the Saar region by the French.

- No French sector in Berlin

- The Americans allow the French a large sector in the southwestern portion of their zone

- The British have Canadian, Belgian and Luxembourgish sectors in their zone

- The Allied Control Commission only consists of the British, Americans and Soviets.

alternate april 1946 no french zone in germany.png
 
Then France does not bear any economic costs of occupation, and the others have a larger cost.
The French did get to raid the Saar Protectorate's coal reserves, even when they finally returned it to West Germany they retained the right to continue extracting coal for the following twenty-four years. They also demanded a number of improvements to the Moselle river for shipping which might not have been chosen over alternatives otherwise. So whilst they don't have the economic costs of an occupation zone they also might not have the boost from the Saar's coal which IIRC was important to their post-war recovery.


Could this give the Communists more influence in France?
Doubtful. It's Stalin that refused to grant France an occupation zone and participation in the administration of Germany, only lobbying by the UK and the US in our timeline seeing him relent – even then he refused to cede any territory and stated that any French zone had to be created from territory of the already agreeed British and French ones. Here Churchill has decided that it's simply not worth the effort to make the argument. With the Soviets very publicly snubbing France I can't really see it reflecting well on the communists.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
According to this book it seems Stalin's main concern was less the actual zone and more that France would have a seat at the allied control commission.

Ultimately, it might well be that even if Churchill and Stalin disagree with a French occupation zone, the Americans might work out having a French sector within their own zone which could have covered the area of their original zone that they gave over to for the southern half of the OTL French zone. At that point the French were already in occupation of the area and it isn't as if other powers weren't allowed to participate in the occupation (but not the administration) of the various occupation zones (in particular this was done in the British zone, where there were at various times Norwegian, Danish, Canadian, Belgian and Dutch sectors; the OTL French zone also had a Luxembourgish sector and eventually the Belgian sector in the British zone got extended into the American zone itself).

So using some maps I had done some years back as a basis, this might be what things might have looked like in April 1946:

- The Allies probably cede Saar outright to French occupation as being separate from the occupation of Germany (with Luxembourg being permitted to occupy a small portion of the Saar region by the French.

- No French sector in Berlin

- The Americans allow the French a large sector in the southwestern portion of their zone

- The British have Canadian, Belgian and Luxembourgish sectors in their zone

- The Allied Control Commission only consists of the British, Americans and Soviets.

View attachment 437162

That yellow bordered area in the map, was that the Dutch zone? Or do you mean the annexed bits that were returned later on?
 
Well, what happens to the Saarland? Does it reunite with West Germany as in OTL or does it remain in France?

I can't see it not reuniting with WG. There's quite literally no end to the number of headaches the Germans could cause a stubborn France in there via various strains of civil disobedience, and they'd be facing immense pressure from the UK and US for a strong West Germany as a buffer state against the Soviets.
 
That yellow bordered area in the map, was that the Dutch zone? Or do you mean the annexed bits that were returned later on?

In the north? That was the area of the Canadian Army Occupation Force (CAOF) as part of the British zone (see here; scroll to the end for the map). Also here. Based on the advances of the Canadian army in the final phases of the war, their sector was evidently based on where they ended up in May 1945.

I posit that similarly, the French would be given a sector in the US zone based on where they ended up in May 1945 if the US and UK couldn't convince Stalin to let France have a full say in the occupation (initially based on the book link I gave above it seemed Stalin was quite alright with something along these lines) and/or if Churchill wasn't convinced that France should have a say and it would be Churchill and Stalin aligned against a French zone.

The Dutch occupied areas were only occupied briefly and then outright annexed before being returned in the 1950s I believe.
 
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