France; no Bretons?

Okay... From what I learned, somewhere around the fall of Roman Empires, Brithonic lords send warriors to what is now Brittany, France, seizing lands (and if Wikipedia is true, a part of what is called 'Green Spain', by the Basques Lands). MAYBE there was peoples who came from there before, but...

So, and correct me if I am wrong up in the premise...

What if they never came? Maybe by settling away, elsewhere, like ireland, or the 'Green Spain' (Galicia?), but not on modern french ground.

Would it change much the history of France? Who would live in Brittany - heck, how it would be called? Armorique? What would peoples speak there - an alternate form of this romance language of the 'Oil' familly, Gallo?
 

Delvestius

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Would it change much the history of France? Who would live in Brittany - heck, how it would be called? Armorique? What would peoples speak there - an alternate form of this romance language of the 'Oil' familly, Gallo?

Not much of history would have been changed. Perhaps England may have had less of an edge at the onset of the Hundred-Years war, but that's all that readily comes to mind.

As far as language, yes, they would probably speak an "Oil" language, but I could also imagine another Romantic sub-family being created, given their distance and unique location on the French coast.
 
As far as language, yes, they would probably speak an "Oil" language, but I could also imagine another Romantic sub-family being created, given their distance and unique location on the French coast.

I could see this, especially if the area maintained independence for awhile. It's be sort of like a French version of Catalan or Portuguese.
 
I could see this, especially if the area maintained independence for awhile. It's be sort of like a French version of Catalan or Portuguese.

Well, there was Occitan already, the french dialects (?) of Catalan...

But possibly a more divergent Oil dialect, then language if isolated enough...
 
Not much of history would have been changed. Perhaps England may have had less of an edge at the onset of the Hundred-Years war, but that's all that readily comes to mind.

I beg to differ - much of the Britons in Armorica married into local nobility.
For example without the Bretons there would certainly be no William the Conqueror as Rollo I married a granddaughter of Gurvand of Rennes Duke/King of Brittany.

As far as language, yes, they would probably speak an "Oil" language, but I could also imagine another Romantic sub-family being created, given their distance and unique location on the French coast.

A Oil dialect seems likely.


Without the Bretons there may be more Viking settlement along the coast.
We could end up with a Greater Normandy ;)
 
Would it change much the history of France? Who would live in Brittany - heck, how it would be called? Armorique? What would peoples speak there - an alternate form of this romance language of the 'Oil' familly, Gallo?

1)Gallo is a dialect of french. Not a language.

2)For the name probably : Armorique if the center of the region is at the entrence of peninsula, or Vennèsis for the OTL Peninsula.

3)The history wouldn't be changed much : but the *Brittany would be absorbed earlier in the french or neustrian kingdom as less independent and dynamic demographically. Besides, this earlier absorbtion and a place with a good economic potential regarding sea and husbandry could lead to a better influence of gallo dialect into the elaboration of french language (that is OTL more based on Picard and Tourangeau)

Well, there was Occitan already, the french dialects (?) of Catalan...

But possibly a more divergent Oil dialect, then language if isolated enough...

Occitan is a distinct language from french, and for french dialects of Catalan...except if you mean the french tourtists in Catalonia, i don't see one.

Well, i don't see how it could be isolated more than OTL. A distinct state, not really part of the kingdom for many ascpects especially earlier elaboration of language...And still, the gallo is part of french language...

So, no Bretons would probably mean a quicker absorbtion in any case.
 
To my understanding, some Britons did move to Spain and established a small little community in an area called Bretonia but they were quickly assimilated by the Romanized Visigoths and Hispano-Roman population.
 
I wonder if the outward migration largely stays at home, does that mean a slightly stronger language group for the Welsh/Cornish?
 
I wonder if the outward migration largely stays at home, does that mean a slightly stronger language group for the Welsh/Cornish?

OR maybe a more fully celtic 'Gallicia' or such... If they went in numbers to Spain instead...

OR maybe a Welsh Easterrn Ireland... brievely..
 
OR maybe a more fully celtic 'Gallicia' or such... If they went in numbers to Spain instead...

Well, it could indeed make Galicia a REAL celto-spanish instead of the OTL ridiculous claim.

We could have the survivance of a Romano-Britton kingdom, very similar to Wales before VII if these Brittons chase the suevian king and merging with the suevian nobility. It would make this part of the peninsula catholic more earlier than OTL and, providing the Visigoths are busy elsewhere, could make an exemple for visigothic dissident such as Count Paulus and reinforce the arian/national feeling of Visigoths after VI.
 
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