France Keeps Alsace-Lorraine but Loses its Colonies in 1871

It's possible,
but Alsace is more useful and closer to home and has mixed Germanic history, plus Strasbourg.
Thing that always got me was that if they had an honest plebiscite Alsace and lothringin would probably have chosen Germany.

Prussia/Germany would be hard pressed to maintain French colonies at this point.

The results of the first elections in Alsace-Moselle organized after the annexation by the german Reich proved you wrong. They were massively pro-France.
 
The results of the first elections in Alsace-Moselle organized after the annexation by the german Reich proved you wrong. They were massively pro-France.
well I would wager most elections after being annexed would be if it's fair and open, many would have felt bad German policy of trying to de French the area and felt some anger and or frustrations over such.

There was a sizable German minority in lothringin and Alsace, more in lothringin I believe. It was a different time though and the Germans were not too fond of non German groups being non German.

All this said though it's ironic how after the first world war they wanted to be an independent republic, it's a fairly distinct region
 
In response to the OP, for what reason would the newly born German Empire want any colony France has? Not only would they be massive cash depleters, virtually any of the French colonies wouldn't have been considered worthwhile for Germany.

Let's look at which colonies France had in 1871 and what would happen to them if somehow they ended up under German rule:

French Guyana - The region was barely settled by France at this point in time. It was a completely penal colony and backwater. Had Germany acquired it, I doubt they would have kept it. It would have probably end up sold to Brazil eventually.

Saint Pierre and Miquelon - Most likely if Germany would have acquired this (And the OP does say Germany would get all French colonies) it most likely would end up being sold to someone probably Canada.

French Caribbean - The French Caribbean while it would make such nice possessions it would be very difficult for Germany to keep control of them. While I can see Germany holding onto them for a while, by simply just let them run as they had during the French rule. Saint Martin could likely have traded to the Netherlands in exchange for some contested border regions between Germany and the former. But the other major French islands left would either eventually become self-ruled or when the USA comes knocking be easy to snipe off from Germany.

French Algiers - I sincerely doubt Germany would have the power projection to hold Algiers. It would be a total waste of resources by the Germans and would distract them a lot. France would have likely got the region back at some point since well you had them keep Alsace-Lorraine they would get the industrial bonus of the region.

French Senegal - Now this is probably one of the few French Colonies I can see the Germans sucessfully establishing themselves. However the people of Senegal did enjoy certain rights under the French (they were allowed a seat in the French Assembly, something that lasted until 1940!). Would the Germans kept those rights for them? Someone with better knowledge of German Politics during the Bismark era probably is best suited to answer that.

French Conchinchina - This is another colony where I think Germany can eventually prove sucessfull. Maybe not in the immediate time but eventually a potential German Indochina would likely develop. This would lead to some interesting conflict with the British.

French Pacific - Probably would be run similar to how the German colonies were run most likely. In TTL 2017 I wouldn't be suprised if some of these were German still.
 
For prestige reasons, of course; plus, Germany can build a large Navy in the future to try handling all of these colonies.

True, thing is Alsace-Lorraine is more important and more importantly it contains Germans. True Germany could get use out of some colonies, I did mention Senegal and Tonkin in that sense, but the problem is Otto Von Bismark was the chancellor of Germany at the time. And he really saw colonies as a waste of Germany's resources. So to get Germany to gain any of those colonies instead of Alsace-Lorraine would require a massive POD.
 
I would suggest for Bismarck to make this choice you would need to make changes earlier.

In 1864 the king of Denmark offered that Denmark joined the German Confederation against being allowed keeping Schleswig-Holstein. Let's say that Bismarck see a opportunity in this to get access the Danish navy and naval tradition. He make a deal with the Danish king in secret, that Denmark will support Prussia in its war with Austria and join the North German Confederation, when Prussia set that up. Prussia win like in OTL over Austria, Denmark join the North German Confederation. As Bismarck doesn't run as much on German nationalism as in OTL, the defeat of France end up with Germany not uniting and NGC takes all the French colonies.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
True, thing is Alsace-Lorraine is more important and more importantly it contains Germans. True Germany could get use out of some colonies, I did mention Senegal and Tonkin in that sense, but the problem is Otto Von Bismark was the chancellor of Germany at the time. And he really saw colonies as a waste of Germany's resources. So to get Germany to gain any of those colonies instead of Alsace-Lorraine would require a massive POD.
Did the Germans in Alsace-Lorraine actually prefer Germany to France, though? Indeed, my impression is that--at least back in 1871--it was the other way around!

Also, having a pissed off and revanchist France for decades is a problem in itself.
 
I would suggest for Bismarck to make this choice you would need to make changes earlier.

In 1864 the king of Denmark offered that Denmark joined the German Confederation against being allowed keeping Schleswig-Holstein. Let's say that Bismarck see a opportunity in this to get access the Danish navy and naval tradition. He make a deal with the Danish king in secret, that Denmark will support Prussia in its war with Austria and join the North German Confederation, when Prussia set that up. Prussia win like in OTL over Austria, Denmark join the North German Confederation. As Bismarck doesn't run as much on German nationalism as in OTL, the defeat of France end up with Germany not uniting and NGC takes all the French colonies.

I like that. In fact we can go one step further. Have Prince Frederick not survive to childhood. King Christian thus decides that in return for joining the North German Confederation William's son Frederick and Alexandra the eldest daughter of the King of Denmark marry thus uniting Prussia and Denmark under Personal Union. In this timeline the NGC takes the French colonies adding the French Caribbean to the former Danish West Indies thus so.

In return perhaps the South Germans can maybe unite under Bavaria, who also joins the war on the side of the North Germans with Alsace instead of going to Prussia, going to the Bavarians instead perhaps?
 
I like that. In fact we can go one step further. Have Prince Frederick not survive to childhood. King Christian thus decides that in return for joining the North German Confederation William's son Frederick and Alexandra the eldest daughter of the King of Denmark marry thus uniting Prussia and Denmark under Personal Union. In this timeline the NGC takes the French colonies adding the French Caribbean to the former Danish West Indies thus so.

In return perhaps the South Germans can maybe unite under Bavaria, who also joins the war on the side of the North Germans with Alsace instead of going to Prussia, going to the Bavarians instead perhaps?
Alsace did not go to Prussia. It was a German Reichsland garrisoned by the Prussian Army. Unfortunately Wilhelm II was too deferential to the military and did not respond appropriately to Alsatian grievances.
 
Did the Germans in Alsace-Lorraine actually prefer Germany to France, though? Indeed, my impression is that--at least back in 1871--it was the other way around!

Also, having a pissed off and revanchist France for decades is a problem in itself.
Losing your position as a primary European power tends to be a fact that is resisted kicking and screaming (Spain sure took a long time and epic amounts of blood to accept it). France still had a shot after 1871, and will have it any way the war shakes out. It can lose that, and I think by 1914 they were getting close, but not close enough to forego giving it a final shot (by allying Russia to neutralize most of German power).

Or, in other words, I don't think taking anything somewhat peripheral to France (i.e. anything not part of the realm of France before the disassembly of Valois Burgundy) is going to matter. If you took Rheims or such you might be able to stoke the fire more, but I don't think you can get less. Germany might have outlasted the rage by ignoring it (and indeed, was doing so for the first few decades post-war by simply being hard enough to beat through clever diplomacy and innate strength), but avoiding the anger outright seems impossible.
 
Germany in 1870 is not in a position to support colonial development. Bismark was adamantly against it. It was one of the reasons between his falling out with Wilhelm II.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Losing your position as a primary European power tends to be a fact that is resisted kicking and screaming (Spain sure took a long time and epic amounts of blood to accept it). France still had a shot after 1871, and will have it any way the war shakes out. It can lose that, and I think by 1914 they were getting close, but not close enough to forego giving it a final shot (by allying Russia to neutralize most of German power).

Or, in other words, I don't think taking anything somewhat peripheral to France (i.e. anything not part of the realm of France before the disassembly of Valois Burgundy) is going to matter. If you took Rheims or such you might be able to stoke the fire more, but I don't think you can get less. Germany might have outlasted the rage by ignoring it (and indeed, was doing so for the first few decades post-war by simply being hard enough to beat through clever diplomacy and innate strength), but avoiding the anger outright seems impossible.
So, would it be better on Prussia's part to not only take Alsace-Lorraine, but also iron ore-rich Briey and Longwy from France? After all, if there is nothing that Prussia can do to make France less pissed off at it, why not punish France as much as you can?
 
France went to war of her own volition and lost badly through her own incompetence.
Losing territories on the border is what happens when you lose a war that you started...
France as the traditional land power would have been hostile to Germany's creation pretty much no matter what, it's about as built in to the international arena as Austro-Russian tensions.
 
So, would it be better on Prussia's part to not only take Alsace-Lorraine, but also iron ore-rich Briey and Longwy from France? After all, if there is nothing that Prussia can do to make France less pissed off at it, why not punish France as much as you can?
Yeah, I think so, as regards France.

Of course there are other internal and external actors who are able to more easily stomach 'kinda German and who cares about the locals' land being taken rather than 'as much French land as we can get away with'.
 
Unless Germany could somehow be given more of a maritime or overseas presence, I really do not see Germany going for this sort of deal. Why would it abandon plausibly German territory in Europe for overseas territories it has no connection to?
 
Aren't there other threads on this board with a similar premise suggesting that Prussia was interested in Cochinchina?
 
Aren't there other threads on this board with a similar premise suggesting that Prussia was interested in Cochinchina?
Prussia was not interested in Cochinchina but there was a scare around 1885 about Prussian intervention in the highlands.

Hard to say how much was real and how much was elucubrations of one particular individual of dubious character.

The Prussian were close enough to Thailand anyway
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Yeah, I think so, as regards France.

Of course there are other internal and external actors who are able to more easily stomach 'kinda German and who cares about the locals' land being taken rather than 'as much French land as we can get away with'.
The area around Metz was French-majority and yet was nevertheless taken by Prussia/Germany in 1871, though.
 
The area around Metz was French-majority and yet was nevertheless taken by Prussia/Germany in 1871, though.
Yes, I didn't say they could take no land that was French. They had won a defensive war, after all.

There's a limit somewhere, and Briey and Longwy may or may not be beyond that limit.
 
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