France Fights On

Both APOD and FFO suffer from the agendas of the authors concerned, but then most works of fiction do.

Before the split, it was the latter's agenda that most put me off - there was an admitted motivation of somehow trying to repair perceived damaged French pride from the historical course of events. If you ask me, that is a particularly silly reason to write a French wank.

I also had a feeling at times that both were pretentious in the sense that they were saying their work was so well researched that the butterflies and such went beyond simply being plausible and into the realm of being the most likely consequences of events.

On the whole, there have been some great works over at the Naval Fiction forum and here that leave these two for dead due to their faults, but parts of APOD and FFO, where there was actually some character and plot development, were a good read.
 
Before the split, it was the latter's agenda that most put me off - there was an admitted motivation of somehow trying to repair perceived damaged French pride from the historical course of events.

Actually the goal of FFO was to "prove" that even after the disastrous first two month the fight could continue (hence the title). It isn't trying to repair anything, it is simply proving that Pétain was the worst traitor that France ever knew.
 
Actually the goal of FFO was to "prove" that even after the disastrous first two month the fight could continue (hence the title). It isn't trying to repair anything, it is simply proving that Pétain was the worst traitor that France ever knew.

I was around on the Naval Fiction forum when it was being posted. One of the contributors specifically acknowledged that one of his motivations was somehow to rebuild French prestige by showing what could have been achieved. It's a silly notion in my book because the French have nothing to be ashamed about. But it's not the first time, and won't be the last, that you encounter nationalism in AH fiction. I think "The Big One" does it the other way with a distinctly anti-French flavour.
 
I've been following FFO for longer than I care to remember. Many have commented on the differing methodologies which was a driving force between the split into FFO/APOD. I'd like to expand on that a little.

It's been mentioned that FFO was, at least to the French team, a means of salving wounds from the war that are still not fully healed. This is very much true, as is their focus on the storyline, rather than the details.
This had unintended consequences. Someone mentioned upthread how "the Allies get screwed by the IJN capturing a RN Fleet library". This is entirely true. What was left out of that comment is that:
a) this was a result of a decision made by the French team.
b) Mark and the rest of the APOD team simply did what they always do, which is try and work out the consequences of the stated actions.
c) they actually acted to limit the damage this caused.

Another point to remember about APOD- at its core it consists of about half a dozen people driven by the desire to a) research areas of WW2 that are of interest to them and b)write fiction based on their research, and in that order of preference. They've stated time and time again that, although they don't believe that much of the work they've inherited from FFO has any logical basis, they simply cannot afford the time and effort to re-write it. They've been quite open and honest about this, so I think criticism on this point is disingenuous at best.

One last point for now. FFO and APOD both started on the Naval Weapons board, home to some of the most argumentative, stubborn, uncompromising egotistical posters I've ever had the misfortune to come across. It's a relatively small crowd with a disproportionate amount of people who have made their minds up on most issues back in the 70s and refuse to change their minds no matter what. It is a place where grudges aren't so much held, as nurtured and cared for. As an example:

Mark the Disingenuous was invited to handle much of the PTO in FFO and proceeded to use it mostly as a vehicle to "win" some of his longstanding disagreements with Brad 3.0

This sort of petty name-calling and accusations of bias made for a very poisonous atmosphere, and discouraged the very thing that APOD/FFO have repeatedly stated they wanted/needed- greater US expertise. It also solidified the defensive attitude of some FFO/APOD participants; this was unfortunate, as thing got to the stage where no meaningful dialogue could take place.
 
I was around on the Naval Fiction forum when it was being posted. One of the contributors specifically acknowledged that one of his motivations was somehow to rebuild French prestige by showing what could have been achieved. It's a silly notion in my book because the French have nothing to be ashamed about. But it's not the first time, and won't be the last, that you encounter nationalism in AH fiction. I think "The Big One" does it the other way with a distinctly anti-French flavour.

I actually find it pleasing that the author's motivations are so clearly laid out. I may disagree with the motivations, but at least they are openly acknowledging them. Many AH writers could learn from this.
 

Archibald

Banned
I necro this thread (which is mine, so it is allowed AFAIK)
Folks, have a look at this.
https://translate.google.com/transl...ancecontinue.org/&&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en
This is the France fights On site translated by a web page translator. I do know that it isn't perfect, so I need your feelings about the translation.

The forum here
https://translate.google.com/transl...ancecontinue.org/&&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en

Most forum members understand english.

Main issue is that the bulk of the story is available only in Pdf format to be downloaded on the site http://1940lafrancecontinue.org/

Best way is to select all the text, then cut and paste into this http://www.systran.fr/lp/traduction-document-pdf/

cheers !
 
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Thanks for this! I was lucky enough to work on this project very early on. I had to drop out, which I've always regretted, but it was always enjoyable and (IMO)plausible, at least for quite some time after I left. I look forward to catching up on it.
 
Its always nice to see the 1940 campaign examined. We'll see if the sysop lets this necro fly. I've never taken the time to read the FFO or APOD stories. There must be some useful information there on the US arms production underway for France in 1940. I've always been curious what the probable aircraft delivery might have been into 1942.

If the gods of the web site strike this thread back to the grave perhaps you can pick up here with a link to the original thread.
 

Archibald

Banned
I think the mods won't strike because this is my own thread and I haven't been banned or away since then. Hopefully...
 
I'm considering something of French navy element in my TL mainly to set up some butterflies for other things...
 
I'd heartily recommend searching for the "Great Deeds" story based in this universe. A good example of a well written story, even if some parts of it push the boundaries of believability, and some elements are crowbarred in to fit around the authors stated research goals.
 
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