France buys Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Philippines

I found an interesting old thread on a Belgian Cuba:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/belgian-cuba.314282/

"Though historians waited a century to learn this facet of Palmerston's thinking late in 1836, an interesting account was published by the Fortnightly Review in 1895 telling 'How Cuba might have belonged to France.' In January of 1837, so the story ran, on the initiative of Queen Cristina, the Spanish banker in Paris, Aguado, approached Talleyrand to arrange talks on a scheme for France to buy Cuba for thirty million reals with Puerto Rico and the Philippine Islands for another ten million. The French would need to float a loan for this, and from the resultant commissions Aguado, Talleyrand, and others would profit personally. There seemed to be agreement and an envoy, Campuzano, arrived from Madrid to onclude the negotiations. Just as the documents were to be signed, Louis Philippe demanded a reduction of three million reals in the price of the Philippines because, he declared, their acquisition could well embroil France in a war with Great Britain. When the French king began to haggle over the price, Campuzano, who had disliked his task all along, became indignant, and tossed the documents into the fire, ending the negotiations. All the talks had been conducted in overtones of dread that Palmerston might discover what was afoot. Complete secrecy had been insisted upon and only through Talleyrand's secretary, Colmache, was the story eventually published in 1895. Cristina herself was to take full responsibility for the negotiations should word somehow get out, and, considering Palmerston's efforts at this time to raise money for her, we may well understand the Queen's feelings of apprehension.


So, what if Louis-Philippe had acquired Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines in 1837?

I can see this extending to France gaining Yucatan and Santo Domingo due to the desire of those two places to be annexed by somebody.

The Pastry War of 1838-1839 is going to play out differently. The US supported France in the conflict OTL.

France might conquer Hawaii during the Laplace Affair of 1839. Hawaii as a waystation between the American holdings and Philippines would be very useful.
 
I found an interesting old thread on a Belgian Cuba:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/belgian-cuba.314282/




So, what if Louis-Philippe had acquired Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines in 1837?

I can see this extending to France gaining Yucatan and Santo Domingo due to the desire of those two places to be annexed by somebody.

The Pastry War of 1838-1839 is going to play out differently. The US supported France in the conflict OTL.

France might conquer Hawaii during the Laplace Affair of 1839. Hawaii as a waystation between the American holdings and Philippines would be very useful.

I feel that if France gains Cuba and Puerto Rico, America would be less hesitant to expand southward, especially how the Southerners as I recalled had ambitions to to expand into Latin America and Caribbean. I could see Cuba being a staging ground for France intervention into Mexico but would an ATL Pastry War change France intervention into Mexico later on?

I'm not that much of a buff of French history but France buying the Philippines as a Filipino is interesting considering that the French had interests over Western Mindanao as they did blockade Basilan. A much larger French Asia-Pacific would be interesting considering France was already intervening in Vietnam. One thing that I am concerned is how would the Dutch and the British react to France gaining the Philippines. The Brits already had trade interest their, not to mention gaining the Philippines is very desirable in terms of geopolitics.

A Francoization of the Philippines is one, alternate colonial migrations into the Philippines too, alternate administration as I wonder how France would deal with administration of the Philippines when compared to Spain in the 19th century... Definitely much more radicalism and revolts and desire for independence may be sped up considering that the 1848 Revolution is 11 years away.


@kasumigenx @AH-Francis @Simeon @Namayan Check this out.
 
I found an interesting old thread on a Belgian Cuba:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/belgian-cuba.314282/




So, what if Louis-Philippe had acquired Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines in 1837?

I can see this extending to France gaining Yucatan and Santo Domingo due to the desire of those two places to be annexed by somebody.

The Pastry War of 1838-1839 is going to play out differently. The US supported France in the conflict OTL.

France might conquer Hawaii during the Laplace Affair of 1839. Hawaii as a waystation between the American holdings and Philippines would be very useful.

Loyalty of the Philippines is dependent on how France treats the locals. During this time, Filipinos want equality, secularization which the OTL Spanish did not give.

If France gives all of the locals request, Filipinos will be utterly loyal to France to the point that might even think they are French citizens.

If not, one way or another rebellions will spring up.

A Francoization of the Philippines is one, alternate colonial migrations into the Philippines too, alternate administration as I wonder how France would deal with administration of the Philippines when compared to Spain in the 19th century... Definitely much more radicalism and revolts and desire for independence may be sped up considering that the 1848 Revolution is 11 years away.


@kasumigenx @AH-Francis @Simeon @Namayan Check this out.


I don't think the Philippines will be sold without a rebellion.

I do think that 1848 revolution will trigger a rebellion.

If France do purchases Philippines by 1837, I dont know how fast the new colonial masters will react vs Pule Rebellion. If not react violently give in to secularization to the point that makes Philippines more loyal to France butterflying Pule rebellion and all other next rebellions.
 
I do think that 1848 revolution will trigger a rebellion.

If France do purchases Philippines by 1837, I dont know how fast the new colonial masters will react vs Pule Rebellion. If not react violently give in to secularization to the point that makes Philippines more loyal to France butterflying Pule rebellion and all other next rebellions.

Spain will not sell the Philippines without a major rebellion and they will not sell a loyal colony.

Maybe Cuba and Puerto Rico but not the Philippines.
 
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What an unpleasant thing to thing about. Let's talk about food instead. What does a mix of Filipino and French cuisine looks like, I wonder?

France's impact would be mostly in the production of cheese, butter and milk and its popularity with locals.

The breeding of dairy carabao, the introduction of courgettes and other vegetables, introduction of herbs like dill and savoury.

The biggest impact will be the growth of wheat on the islands.

As we see in 1957 plant trials Ilocos Norte, Ilocos Sur, La Union, Abra, Pangasinan, Nueva Ecija, Tarlac, Pampanga, Bataan, Rizal, Negros Island and Palawan all proved to had capabilities of growing wheat.

Bread, pastry and with barley cultivation beer of higher standards will most likely become a common day to day food by the post WWI era.

Most dishes I believe would remain as they were though with minor influences in spices, an addition of dairy.

Maybe the introduction of classical French food with local ingredients like a modified palm wine would be more norm for the upper and upper middle classes though.
 
Teddy Roosevelt suddenly has a much harder war if the maine still goes off. Plus the war is just less marketable.

Plus if my timing is right it could alienate us to Britain, drawing us to Germany, meaning a neigh certain central powers victory if we do enter
 

Lusitania

Donor
The best way for the French to accomplish this would of been to support the carlists instead of liberals in the 1st carlist war.

If say France goes all out and both fully funds the Carlists and send to Spain more than 7,00 troops it sent liberal side iotl. Plus sends food and supplies to help the population resulting in a victory for carlists. In return Spain turns over all of its colonial possessions to France.
 
France's impact would be mostly in the production of cheese, butter and milk and its popularity with locals.

The breeding of dairy carabao, the introduction of courgettes and other vegetables, introduction of herbs like dill and savoury.

The biggest impact will be the growth of wheat on the islands.

As we see in 1957 plant trials Ilocos Norte, Ilocos Sur, La Union, Abra, Pangasinan, Nueva Ecija, Tarlac, Pampanga, Bataan, Rizal, Negros Island and Palawan all proved to had capabilities of growing wheat.

Bread, pastry and with barley cultivation beer of higher standards will most likely become a common day to day food by the post WWI era.

Most dishes I believe would remain as they were though with minor influences in spices, an addition of dairy.

Maybe the introduction of classical French food with local ingredients like a modified palm wine would be more norm for the upper and upper middle classes though.

Pork Sisig drizzled with Cheese on top of it does has a good image to it. I never really tried French cuisine but I'd say it would give Philippine a far artistic flavor to it.
Loyalty of the Philippines is dependent on how France treats the locals. During this time, Filipinos want equality, secularization which the OTL Spanish did not give.

If France gives all of the locals request, Filipinos will be utterly loyal to France to the point that might even think they are French citizens.

If not, one way or another rebellions will spring up.






I do think that 1848 revolution will trigger a rebellion.

If France do purchases Philippines by 1837, I dont know how fast the new colonial masters will react vs Pule Rebellion. If not react violently give in to secularization to the point that makes Philippines more loyal to France butterflying Pule rebellion and all other next rebellions.

I've been looking into a little more about France colonial empire and I'd say could be more open considering France assimilation policy was that if a person adopts French language and culture, one could be French as with the Four Communes although racism would still be place. I think the French could be more open to Filipino being equal with consideration the Spaniards have significantly Westernized Filipino through Hispanic culture and that a major majority of Filipinos are Catholic. If they do so including they give into secularization then rebellions are significantly are lower and less likely to occur.
 

Lusitania

Donor
If WWII still occurs imagine the impact if the Japanese lean on the Vichy France and end up occupying the PI the same way they did Indochina.

The interesting thing is that without Philippines and Guam does US still get Hawai or does France get it? Does Britain retain it?

Does US still attempt to build up a large pacific fleet?

Now without Hawaii and Philippines what happens in WW2 and foes that mean US not get involved?

Totally different world
 
Spain was determined to hold onto the Philippines. Even when they were defeated in the Spanish-American War, the Spanish wanted to give the US only two islands in the archipelago. The US rejected this out of hand and demanded the whole island chain, so I see the Spanish refusing to hand over the Philippines to France. This means the Spanish-American War would still happen, though it would need a different casus belli than the USS Maine.

This butterflies away Teddy Roosevelt's presidency or even his vice presidency under McKinley, since Roosevelt gained fame from leading the Rough Riders in Cuba, which likely means no Panama Canal and someone else mediating the Treaty of Portsmouth (if that treaty ever exists). But that is a can of worms that I do not want to get into it, because it will give me a headache

During World War II, I could see the US occupying Puerto Rico and Cuba to prevent them from falling into German hands, like how the British invaded Iceland in OTL's 1940. I don't see France being willing to maintain control over Cuba or Puerto Rico during decolonization, so they become US territories. This in of itself would irrevocably change the Cold War, since without a sympathetic nation in the region, communist/socialist uprisings in Latin America never happen, so Chavez would probably never have risen in Venezuela. Expect to see a tidal wave of Pinochet-like figures in Latin America.

Cubans also played a large part in Soviet-backed proxy wars in Africa, particularly Angola, so you could probably see the Angolan Civil War ending earlier in this timeline with Jonas Savimbi (who HATED the Cuban presence in Angola) taking part in a government coalition between the MPLA and UNITA.
 
Spain was determined to hold onto the Philippines. Even when they were defeated in the Spanish-American War, the Spanish wanted to give the US only two islands in the archipelago. The US rejected this out of hand and demanded the whole island chain, so I see the Spanish refusing to hand over the Philippines to France. This means the Spanish-American War would still happen, though it would need a different casus belli than the USS Maine.

This butterflies away Teddy Roosevelt's presidency or even his vice presidency under McKinley, since Roosevelt gained fame from leading the Rough Riders in Cuba, which likely means no Panama Canal and someone else mediating the Treaty of Portsmouth (if that treaty ever exists). But that is a can of worms that I do not want to get into it, because it will give me a headache

During World War II, I could see the US occupying Puerto Rico and Cuba to prevent them from falling into German hands, like how the British invaded Iceland in OTL's 1940. I don't see France being willing to maintain control over Cuba or Puerto Rico during decolonization, so they become US territories. This in of itself would irrevocably change the Cold War, since without a sympathetic nation in the region, communist/socialist uprisings in Latin America never happen, so Chavez would probably never have risen in Venezuela. Expect to see a tidal wave of Pinochet-like figures in Latin America.

Cubans also played a large part in Soviet-backed proxy wars in Africa, particularly Angola, so you could probably see the Angolan Civil War ending earlier in this timeline with Jonas Savimbi (who HATED the Cuban presence in Angola) taking part in a government coalition between the MPLA and UNITA.

That is my point, the Spanish will not cede/sell the Philippines without a major revolt like Katipunan.
 
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The interesting thing is that without Philippines and Guam does US still get Hawai or does France get it? Does Britain retain it?

Does US still attempt to build up a large pacific fleet?

Now without Hawaii and Philippines what happens in WW2 and foes that mean US not get involved?

Totally different world


Yes, and what happens to the ego called Douglas MacArthur?
 
During World War II, I could see the US occupying Puerto Rico and Cuba to prevent them from falling into German hands, like how the British invaded Iceland in OTL's 1940. I don't see France being willing to maintain control over Cuba or Puerto Rico during decolonization, so they become US territories.

I don't think that would be likely. OTL the US did not occupy any of France's possessions in the Americas. At first, Roosevelt recognized Pétain's government and snubbed the Free French. It was not clear in the beginning where Pétain stood. The US thought he (a hero from the previous war) could be persuaded to eventually rejoin the Allies. When de Gaulle's forces liberated St-Pierre and Miquelon in December 1941, the US government was initially angry over this.

Eventually Roosevelt switched his support to Free France. The US backed the FFL as it liberated the Antilles and Guyana. I would expect the same for Cuba/PR.
 
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I don't think that would be likely. OTL the US did not occupy any of France's possessions in the Americas

Cuba and Puerto Rico are close to the Gulf of Mexico, which was swarming with at least 20 U-Boats during the war. During the 'Second Happy Time' which took place after the US entered the war, the Germans sank 609 ships totalling 3.1 million tons, which was roughly one quarter of all shipping during the entire war.

Seeing as how Petain was willing to hand over Indochina and all of it's ports to Japan, who's to say Petain won't give U-Boats and their crews permission to rearm and refuel in Cuban ports, which are 90 miles from the mainland United States?
 
Cuba and Puerto Rico are close to the Gulf of Mexico, which was swarming with at least 20 U-Boats during the war. During the 'Second Happy Time' which took place after the US entered the war, the Germans sank 609 ships totalling 3.1 million tons, which was roughly one quarter of all shipping during the entire war.

Seeing as how Petain was willing to hand over Indochina and all of it's ports to Japan, who's to say Petain won't give U-Boats and their crews permission to rearm and refuel in Cuban ports, which are 90 miles from the mainland United States?

Well assuming a POD as far back as the 1830s doesn't completely butterfly away World Wars I and II, I would say that Petain probably won't give U-boats and their crews permissions to rearm and refuel in Cuban ports for the same reasons they didn't do so in Martinique, Guadeloupe or French Guiana:

1. Vichy France was supposed to be officially neutral according to the terms of the armistice

2. The Pan-American Security Zone. Doing something like this could likely be interpreted as a belligerent act by the signatories of the Panama Declaration which established the zone in 1939.
 
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