France Antartique

How can France Antarctique thrive? Perhaps killing Villegaignon off in the early stages of the colony, avoiding the... unpleasant situation with the Huguenots, in which he expelled all the calvinists from Fort Coligny. Maybe another huguenot officer could replace him? Would it eventually be recognized by the King?
 
How can France Antarctique thrive? Perhaps killing Villegaignon off in the early stages of the colony, avoiding the... unpleasant situation with the Huguenots, in which he expelled all the calvinists from Fort Coligny. Maybe another huguenot officer could replace him? Would it eventually be recognized by the King?

I think the best bet would be make a colony formed only by Catholics or Huguenots. But even then is doubtful the French could save the colony from the Portuguese and their allied Tupi attacks. They simply didn't have the resources necessary deffend themselves.

If you somehow can avoid the French Wars of Religion than the French wouldn't be distracted by internal conflicts and could keep their challange against the Portuguese in South America.
 
I think the best bet would be make a colony formed only by Catholics or Huguenots.
Yeah, I agree with you. Shouldn't be hard, with Coligny and Calvin's blessings, after all.

But even then is doubtful the French could save the colony from the Portuguese and their allied Tupi attacks. They simply didn't have the resources necessary defend themselves.
The would-be Capitania do Rio de Janeiro was an area known for the fiercely independent natives. The only tribe that got along with the Portuguese was expelled to São Tomé/Espírito Santo, afaik. Portuguese control of that area was tenuous at best. It took 7 years to kill the surviving 20 Frenchmen, after all.

As for resources, with time, and maybe without Villegaignon, things could get better. Hell, it couldn't have been worse :D

If you somehow can avoid the French Wars of Religion than the French wouldn't be distracted by internal conflicts and could keep their challenge against the Portuguese in South America.

Maybe if they are well entrenched in the area, they'd be less bothered, I don't know. If the colony survives until the XVII century, it could very well survive longer. Maybe it could benefit from the 80 Years War and the Dutch-Portuguese War?
 
The would-be Capitania do Rio de Janeiro was an area known for the fiercely independent natives. The only tribe that got along with the Portuguese was expelled to São Tomé/Espírito Santo, afaik. Portuguese control of that area was tenuous at best. It took 7 years to kill the surviving 20 Frenchmen, after all?

Only because the colony was destroied in 1560 and Mem de Sá was stupid enough to believe that the Frenchmen who escaped wouldn't be a problem. If he had left even a minor garrison in Guanabara they wouldn't have survived.
About the tribes, while Araribóia was the only who supported the Portuguese, all the other tribes soon were defeated or changed their alliance, as showed by the fate of the Tamoio Confederation. It was basically because the Jesuits as Nobrega and Anchieta were already succeding in convince the natives to support the Portuguese.

Maybe if they are well entrenched in the area, they'd be less bothered, I don't know. If the colony survives until the XVII century, it could very well survive longer. Maybe it could benefit from the 80 Years War and the Dutch-Portuguese War?

Well, I agree that if they had survived until 1590-1600 they could have a chance. After all, when the Dutch invaded the Northeast later they were expelled more due to effort of the Portuguese population already living there than due to Portugal's help. And Rio wouldn't be a valuable colony by then, they probably could be let alone.

However, if you don't change the fate of France, I think the best chance for France Antartique would be if it becomes a Catholic colony rather than a Protestant. They could then have more support from the king and more colonists. IIRC the French government would forbid sometime later the immigration of Protestants to Canada, and I believe the same policy would be used in the South American colony. Also, they could use French Jesuits to make the same job the Portuguese were doing with the natives, converting many tribes or even convincing the converted that the French were better neighbours than the Portuguese.

I wonder how would be the situation of the Capitania de São Vicente, isolated by the rest of the Portuguese colonies by a French enclave in Guanabara.
 
Only because the colony was destroied in 1560 and Mem de Sá was stupid enough to believe that the Frenchmen who escaped wouldn't be a problem. If he had left even a minor garrison in Guanabara they wouldn't have survived.
About the tribes, while Araribóia was the only who supported the Portuguese, all the other tribes soon were defeated or changed their alliance, as showed by the fate of the Tamoio Confederation. It was basically because the Jesuits as Nobrega and Anchieta were already succeding in convince the natives to support the Portuguese.

Agree with you there. After their main ally was defeated, indeed, the Tamoios were pacified/subdued/killed. Araribóia just skipped the whole unpleasant killing part.

Well, I agree that if they had survived until 1590-1600 they could have a chance. After all, when the Dutch invaded the Northeast later they were expelled more due to effort of the Portuguese population already living there than due to Portugal's help. And Rio wouldn't be a valuable colony by then, they probably could be let alone.
Pois é. The main point is really the survival of the colony for a couple of decades more to make it permanent. Don't know if the best PoD would be kill Villegaignon off or mutilate the Estácio de Sá expedition.

However, if you don't change the fate of France, I think the best chance for France Antartique would be if it becomes a Catholic colony rather than a Protestant. They could then have more support from the king and more colonists. IIRC the French government would forbid sometime later the immigration of Protestants to Canada, and I believe the same policy would be used in the South American colony. Also, they could use French Jesuits to make the same job the Portuguese were doing with the natives, converting many tribes or even convincing the converted that the French were better neighbours than the Portuguese.
I was going for a different flavor in this colonization :p Opting for a Catholic colonization would be easier in the long term, as it would have the official King's approval. However, most of the Huguenots were of urban middle-class. This could have an interesting effect on the colonization patterns. Also, Calvinist priests did, in that short timespan, convert or at least convince the local advantages of Protestantism and French backing.
Besides, there are butterflies regarding the Edict of Fontainebleu. Maybe a milder *Louis XIV?

I wonder how would be the situation of the Capitania de São Vicente, isolated by the rest of the Portuguese colonies by a French enclave in Guanabara.
Yes, it would be very interesting... Maybe the whole southward expansion could be thwarted, with the Portuguese focusing on developing the existing territories?
 
I was going for a different flavor in this colonization :p Opting for a Catholic colonization would be easier in the long term, as it would have the official King's approval. However, most of the Huguenots were of urban middle-class. This could have an interesting effect on the colonization patterns.

Rio and São Paulo by that time were the poorest Portuguese colonies in South America, exactly because they could not compete with the crop planters capitaincies of Northeast. At first the French would find brazil wood there, but and later? Sugar cane? Tobacco? What would they produce there?
Maybe we could see a poor settlement colony there, but as you say they were urban, and I'm not sure how successful would they be, at least until some lucky Frenchman decides to see what exists behind the mountains and start to explore the region of Minas Gerais...

Yes, it would be very interesting... Maybe the whole southward expansion could be thwarted, with the Portuguese focusing on developing the existing territories?
As I said above, when the French discover that the lands they conquered are quite useless to the colonial interests of 16th and 17th century they might lose interest about making coastal advances. From Guanabara to Laguna they would only find a green coast surrounded by mountains and without much land to plant cash crops.
However, if they decide to conquest São Vicente, then we would have the Lusitanian village of São Paulo isolated in the highlands of Piratininga by a French litoral. That would be an "interesting" situation.
 
Hmm, interesting. How would that affect developments in Spanish America? After all, the French were not one of the parties that signed onto the Tordesillas line.
 
Rio and São Paulo by that time were the poorest Portuguese colonies in South America, exactly because they could not compete with the crop planters capitaincies of Northeast. At first the French would find brazil wood there, but and later? Sugar cane? Tobacco? What would they produce there?
Maybe we could see a poor settlement colony there, but as you say they were urban, and I'm not sure how successful would they be, at least until some lucky Frenchman decides to see what exists behind the mountains and start to explore the region of Minas Gerais...

Most definetly sugarcane. It was the hype of the XVIIth century, after all:D.
Not all the Huguenots were of urban middle-class; a good lot of them had small properties in Southern France. The urban huguenots most probably would come in a second wave of immigration.

Regarding the Minas Gerais, that's my main interest. Who would explore it? The bandeirantes of São Vicente or the Antarcticans? Maybe even the Spanish. The region would be one of the main battlegrounds between the Portuguese and the French. Hmm, interesting... :p

As I said above, when the French discover that the lands they conquered are quite useless to the colonial interests of 16th and 17th century they might lose interest about making coastal advances. From Guanabara to Laguna they would only find a green coast surrounded by mountains and without much land to plant cash crops.
However, if they decide to conquest São Vicente, then we would have the Lusitanian village of São Paulo isolated in the highlands of Piratininga by a French litoral. That would be an "interesting" situation.
The litoral of São Vicente was decently garrisoned, at least comparing to Rio de Janeiro. Maybe the French would try to get some advanced bases, but in the end would be reduced to their original base (roughly nowadays Rio de Janeiro)? And what about São Tomé? It was deserted, but it too close to the heart of the colony to be left alone against the French. Maybe it's transformed in another Royal Capitania?

Hmm, interesting. How would that affect developments in Spanish America? After all, the French were not one of the parties that signed onto the Tordesillas line.

I sincerely don't know. Maybe it would weak the Jesuits efforts in the Missões area. Better get a Spanish Colonial expert here:)

Ugh...it's always a wikipedia article...

Most of the articles regarding France Antartique are in Portuguese, or in French. For non-controversial topics (i.e., nothing about the Polish Genocide, or the Armenian-Lithuanian Commonwealth), Wiki is as good as any other encyclopaedia. Come on, let Wiki fill your heart with joy!:D
 
The litoral of São Vicente was decently garrisoned, at least comparing to Rio de Janeiro. Maybe the French would try to get some advanced bases, but in the end would be reduced to their original base (roughly nowadays Rio de Janeiro)?

I remember reading about French explorations on the OTL Santa Catarina coast. If São Vicente is too garrisoned, could they just skip it and found some colony in Santa Catarina Island or São Francisco do Sul?


And what about São Tomé? It was deserted, but it too close to the heart of the colony to be left alone against the French. Maybe it's transformed in another Royal Capitania?

Good point! That would be interesting, São Tomé being colonized again and remaining an independent captaincy based on the Paraíba do Sul river.

I sincerely don't know. Maybe it would weak the Jesuits efforts in the Missões area. Better get a Spanish Colonial expert here:)

Well, the weaking of the Jesuit Missions was caused the Paulistas, so their fate depends on the situation of São Paulo. If the French are successful in Rio I imagine the Portuguese authorities trying to make the Bandeirantes go north rather than south, in order to isolate them on the coast. It could cause a Frech reaction, going to west in order to explore and gain more territories in the coutryside. Minas would be a battlefield (a very interesting battlefield, with all that gold ;)).
 
Well, the weaking of the Jesuit Missions was caused the Paulistas, so their fate depends on the situation of São Paulo. If the French are successful in Rio I imagine the Portuguese authorities trying to make the Bandeirantes go north rather than south, in order to isolate them on the coast. It could cause a Frech reaction, going to west in order to explore and gain more territories in the coutryside. Minas would be a battlefield (a very interesting battlefield, with all that gold ;)).

So long as they didn't go too far west, probably. That is, unless if they pull a Nouvelle-France and forbid people from moving west, even though they would know that that wouldn't happen anyway.

Seriously, though, would a French presence in Rio be threatening to Spain's presence in South America?
 
Seriously, though, would a French presence in Rio be threatening to Spain's presence in South America?

There would some troubles, as showed by the Dutch while their period in Brazil (with their expeditions to Chile, as an example) but I think they wouldn't explore areas where the Spanish were already well stablish. After all, France Antartique wouldn't have contact with Spanish colonies, they would be surrounded by Portuguese territory.
 
Top