France allied with germany ww1

flaris

Banned
With a POD after 1875 have France, Italy, Germany and the Ottoman Empire be very close allies against Britain, Russia and Austria-Hungary. And who would most likely win in this WW1.
 
With a POD after 1875 have France, Italy, Germany and the Ottoman Empire be very close allies against Britain, Russia and Austria-Hungary. And who would most likely win in this WW1.

Not gonna happen. Germany AND France's foreign policies would have to do a 180 for that to be even feasible. Austria had a large rivalry with Russia in the Balkans so they would have to come to some sort of agreement about that. Then I'm not sure HOW to even get Russia and Britain allied without France as a buffer. The Ottoman Empire could go either way, as it was close to both Britain and Germany at one point during the 19th century. And Italy being against Austria is no surprise. Other than those two its incredibly unlikely to happen.
 
Use a POD in 1870, in which Germany does not take Alsace-Lorraine from France and an allied France and Germany is still unlikely, but not impossible.
 
If Germany realised in 1875 that the occupation of Alsace-Lorraine was the impediment to a lasting peace between France and Germany then they might decide to trade land for peace. And if it occurred early enough then they might become allies before a general European war. The real problem is that starting from a Germany/France axis, it may be hard to bring in the other nations as listed and it is even possible that Germany/France could prevent an explosion in the Balkans from spreading and becoming a general European war.
 
As emperor Constantine already said it would be totally illogical for geopolitical reasons. Just look at the map of Europe and of the world.

What you can have is continental Europe against the peripheral mostly extra european powers (UK + Russia) like in the napoleonic wars or in WW2.
 
I'll be the first to address the "who would win" question. Considering that the UK would have to launch an amphibious assault, Czar Nicholas is still in power, and Austria-Hungary suffered numerous defeats against the Russian forces that Germany pretty well destroyed in OTL...I have to go with the France-Germany-Italy alliance.
 
Alliance between France and Germany? Someone is playing Diplomacy way too much :p

- No annexation of Alsace-Moselle, preventing the apperance of huge germanophobia (that OTL declined greatly after 1900's) and replacing it possibly by the more common french germanophily of middle XIXth
- Sucessful Russian Revolution of 1905, letting Russia weaker
- Have a less...demonstrative Willhelm II or no Willie at all.
- Make Fachoda incident growing hugely in order to have a greater anglophobia

Maybe, not likely tough, all these factors could help to if not alliance, less tension between France and Germany.
 
what does Germany get out of an alliance with France? Even if there's no especially strong Francophobia, France is a more likely rival for what Germany wants to do than ally.
 
what does Germany get out of an alliance with France? Even if there's no especially strong Francophobia, France is a more likely rival for what Germany wants to do than ally.

Security at its western borders, a major trading partner. There are other things.

Some of the others:
British sea blockade will be much more difficult when they also have to cover the Gulf of Biscay and French Mediterranean.
The Low Countries will probably be at least friendly neutrals.
French colonies diverting more ressources away from the european theatre should a major conflict arise... I guess the UK might refrain from an amphibious assault and concentrate on colonial warfare, leaving the land war in Europe to Russia (and Austria-Hungary)
 
Security at its western borders, a major trading partner. There are other things.

Its western borders aren't threatened - France is not going to pick a fight with Germany on its own (and France getting allies like it got Russia OTL is something that can be dealt with in regards to dealing with those powers) - and it can have France as a trading partner without committing to a full out alliance.

Some of the others:
British sea blockade will be much more difficult when they also have to cover the Gulf of Biscay and French Mediterranean.

And so what? What war is Germany planning that involves opposing Britain?

The Low Countries will probably be at least friendly neutrals.
Can be done without a French alliance.

French colonies diverting more ressources away from the european theatre should a major conflict arise... I guess the UK might refrain from an amphibious assault and concentrate on colonial warfare, leaving the land war in Europe to Russia (and Austria-Hungary)
This just isn't the sort of thing that lines up with German interests. Germany wants one of (to put a bunch of complicated and competing plans that were OTL handled in a sloppy way into neat categories for alt-historical purposes) two things - "a place in the sun" as far as the colonial and global game goes, where a friendly Britain is more valuable than a friendly France, or European dominance (not necessarily control, just being #1) - where France is a rival, not an ally.


This just looks to me like an alliance of Red Player, White Player, and Green Player against Blue Player, Purple Player, Orange Player, and Pink Player. Which is to say, it has no relationship to the interests or attitudes of the powers involved, it just shuffles around countries between alliance blocs.
 
Having France and Germany not go to war is a very different thing from having them form a military alliance. Alliances are formed against someone.

Post-1875, who is that going to be? Britain? France and Britain had a pretty good working relationship by this point, and trade between the UK and Germany was profitable for both parties. Alliances formed against Germany because it appeared to be the biggest threat to peace in the region. If Germany managed to mend fences enough to rebuild relations with the FRENCH of all people then the British would not have been an apprehensive of the Germans.

After 1875, you'd literally need both countries to have communist revolutions and the crownheads of Europe unite against them, which is also ASB.

If you push the POD back... Like way back to say 1848 maybe
 
By 1875 it's too late and even if there was no Franco-Prussian war and Germany united peacefully France has nothing to gain by allying Germany. And agaisnt who would they ally together?
 
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