Fragmented Mediterranean

Yun-shuno

Banned
WI-there is no rome or alternate power to unify the Italian peninsula? Let's say Carthage collapses into factional war between the elites, and Greek colonialism is either oriented towards the east or doesn't succeed as much?

If Italy remains fragmented and no power rises to rule the Mediterranean how does history proceed.

To further elaborate perhaps Carthage and its allies are eliminated via civil war, plague and the like, Greek colonialism goes east, or perhaps the Greek cities erupt in renewed power struggles.

Time period 400 BC to 400 AD

If there is no unifying mediterrean power-what does Europe/the near east/North Africa look like? Economically? Culturally?
 
It seems you are limiting the area to the Western Med. I assume the Greeks will still be in Greece and Egyptians in Egypt Persians in Asia Minor etc.
Without Rome, Carthage and stagnant Greek states it seems to me you have overlooked the Etrurian federation. It might not have been able to carve out that much at least not post arrival of Celts or rather when the Celts decide that they would like to gather new severed heads in Italy.
Given time the Celts will develop cities and go on to conquer Spain becoming the major power in the Western Med. The Numidians would have a chance of establishing a more lasting kingdom while the Carthagenians would ITTL be citystates on the coast. Without Rome the Diadoci may not have any interest in the Western Med.
What happens when Germanic peoples steppe nomads etc. begins touring Europe... They may just bash heads with the Celtic kingdoms/empire instead of the Roman. Interesting thing of course if a fragmented Europe will be better or worse off fighting off the rabble. Did recently read that the main obstacle to the Mongol invasion of the 13. century west of Hungary was the lack of suitable land for their mounted warfare.
Basically we would have difficulty in recognizing the area.
Without Rome Christianity might not arise.

Just my 2 cents when firing from the hip. :D
 
Check out my ATL. Its kind of close to what you propose.

Given time the Celts will develop cities and go on to conquer Spain becoming the major power in the Western Med.
Without Rome the Diadoci may not have any interest in the Western Med.
What happens when Germanic peoples steppe nomads etc. begins touring Europe... They may just bash heads with the Celtic kingdoms/empire instead of the Roman.

Plausible scenarios.
 
It's fair to say Europe would be unrecognizable. Without the Romans, the only "reliable" Barbarian invasions would be those who were moving out of the Huns way- but where they'd settle is anyone's guess. (Beyond that rough line of the Hun's advance). So all the familiar folks move, but possibly later (fleeing the Huns, rather than moving into the wealthy Roman Empire) where they'd wind up would depend on what the Celts (Gauls, Celto-Iberians) manage to do- or don't do- in a non Roman "Europe". Same goes for the Vikings, Magyars, Bulgars who could show up as scheduled, but again in a very different Europe.
Presumably, Christianity could still occur (if one choses to believe in Mary's Immaculate Conception, that could be a fixed event). But with no Romans to conquer Palestine the growth of Christianity would be very different.
 
Allalia was what I was thinking of concerning the Etruscans. There was a short discussion on that quite some time ago. They may not hold out indefinitely on land against the Celts but the naval aspect would be interesting. Together with the Cartagenian and Greek city states they rule trade.
 
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