Four Field Crop Rotation in India

[Som910]

Can the Norfolk system be implemented directly in India, or are there alternate crops that are more suited to the subcontinental climate? I wanted to do a Mughal SI, and crop rotation would be a big step forward to get rid of near constant famines, but I was sceptical that something devised in Northern Europe would be too useful in the Subcontinent as well.

That, and is their anything that would have to be changed if rice was considered instead of other cereals? It has a totally different growing method, after all.

I am not that familiar with either agricultural science or history of agriculture in the subcontinent, so I am putting it up here.

 

[manitobot]

I am unsure as to famines during the Mughal Era, but I know the intensity of famines increased during British colonization due to economic mismanagement: either taxes or lack of infrastructure, inflation of food prices, exports.

Crop rotation may work though. the crops would have to be different. Mustard seed and barley I believe were often used for Indian crop rotation. What would also be great is labor-saving devices, like a seed drill or a heavy plow, aka a carruca. You should also look into iron plows.

 

[Som910]

What would also be great is labor-saving devices, like a seed drill or a heavy plow, aka a carruca. You should also look into iron plows.

I agree on the ploughs, yes, and if we start prospecting in 'Gondwana', then there would be sufficient iron. Seed drills were available long back in India, just that the metallurgy meant that the readily available stuff was prone to breakdown. Any SI would have to make large leaps in metallurgy before things like seed drills become prominent, and also arrange for agricultural cooperatives as well.

 

[Gwyain]

India under the Mughals was quite advanced in agriculture, it was already well into using the seed drill, heavy ploughing, and had its own crop rotations, and was integrating New World crops like Maize and later the potato. During Akbar it was increasing overall land under cultivation through land reform and had created huge works to help with water supply. Mughal agriculture was already some of the most productive in the world at the time, its actually kind of hard to get it much better in the era... but there's a few modern innovations that could have come earlier to make it even better.

The Norfolk system itself definitely won't work in most of India, it wasn't created with India's double monsoon cycle in mind (or any monsoon cycle... in fact, its really designed specifically for temperate region crop cycles), but the key to the Norfolk system's success isn't the specific crops, its the methodology. The Norfolk crop system is based around growing fodder and grazing crops intermittently with staple crops to constantly have something growing and provide year round food for animals, all while rejuvenating the soil and helping to deal with pests that tend to accumulate over years of mono-croppping. Wheat-Mustard-Barley-Pulse works as a straight Norfolk stand in for places like Northern India that are less impacted by the Monsoon cycle, but its already in pretty wide use during the Mughals, so there's not much that can be done there to improve things. Rice however is one of the areas which has the opportunity for some pretty decent yield increases, and that's by increasing the adoption of integrated rice aquaculture in use in other parts of Asia, which India never widely adopted. Integrated rice aquaculture has pretty significantly helped with food security wherever its adopted, and the technique, while never widespread, has a long history through rice growing regions. There's a lot of different methods of rice aquaculture*, but I'm going to focus specifically on rice-fish/shrimp-azolla aquaculture, because that's the form most widely adopted in modern India.

The nice thing about rice is that it allows for a multi-trophic field to be developed with the right techniques, which the below linked article goes into in more depth. Put simply, rice-fish-azolla aquaculture uses the semi-aquatic nature of rice paddies to more effectively by using the other space in the paddy for other sources of food. By adding fish to the already flooded rice fields, you use the existing water to cultivate some extra protein, and the fish help deal with pests by eating them. Azolla in turn is a floating aquatic plant which helps shade the water the rice is in to shade out competition. It's also unique in that it maintains a symbiotic relationship with a nitrogen fixing bacteria which means it fixes its own nitrogen, and in fact enriches the paddy environment as a whole. It's also super high in protein by dry weight, and while not particularly edible or palatable to humans, it makes great animal feed. The rice and azolla together pretty much eliminate the need for fertilizer or rotation on a rice paddy since the azolla fixes most of the nutrients needed by rice, so it allows for more productive use of the paddy and allows for up to 2 rice crops in a year too. The fish give a nice form of added food security if a crop fails, and otherwise just add diversity to the diet. Azolla grows crazy fast (doubling in size every couple days) and can be harvested regularly for animal fodder.

There's other ways to increase productivity even more, ranging from ducks, to adding animal waste to the fields, and so on, but the principle is just to use the rice paddies more effectively by increasing the amount of things that can use the space. There can be challenges with implementation, since some of the different uses compete with each other, but rice aquaculture has a long history and is still in use today because its so effective in fighting famine. The biggest challenge is usually overcoming traditionally entrenched methods of rice farming.

*This Food and Agriculture Organization article is a pretty good place to start if you'd like to read more, but at 85 pages its not exactly light reading.

 

[Som910]

@Gwyain, thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I had been scratching my head for a few days, coz I was a bit confused how exactly I could actually advance agricultural practices in the Subcontinent as Akbar, as any idea seemed to be already present in the subcontinent by the time the Mughals came. While Bengal and Odisha, the primary rice-growing regions came late to his rule, I think I could finagle a timeline to make sure that the introduction of the rice aquaculture actually sticks. And it would provide some much needed direction for infrastructure building to avoid droughts as well.

North India, from your reply, I would say are dealt with, other than developing metallurgy to make the tools to develope agriculture. South India would need some major agricultural reforms, something I would guess would take a few decades of dedicated work, if he manages to conquer the entire subcontinent, at that.

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

Well the more the food security of Bengal and those regions, the less agricultural reforms you really need in the south- after all a lot of rice was being transported down the coast and Bengal really was a major food exporter to the Doab and Madras alike in the 17th century. Given how integrated these markets were, the south might be better off focusing on industry and letting Bengal focus on foodstuffs. And theres a ton of ATL potential to further speed up and regularise transport in Bengal via canals.

 

[Som910]

Given how integrated these markets were, the south might be better off focusing on industry and letting Bengal focus on foodstuffs.

Could you give suggestions for the best industries I could start in the mid-late 16th century in South India?

 

[von Adler]

Could you give suggestions for the best industries I could start in the mid-late 16th century in South India?

India already had a strong cloth industry based around cotton, increasing the scale and production with modern techniques should be quite possible. Printing cloth with nice patterns was also a profitable industry.

Parts of India still produced wootz steel at this time, but it seems like the ores necessary for the process was running out, but metalworking in general was of high quality and India produced fine armour and weapons.

Skilled craftmanship based around luxury products such as gems, mother of pearl and various hardwoods were also Indian fortes of this time.

See for example the mother of peral travelling utensils bought by the Prince-Elector of Saxony 1602 from Gaujarat.

SKD | Online Collection

skd-online-collection.skd.museum

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

Could you give suggestions for the best industries I could start in the mid-late 16th century in South India?

The obvious answer is textiles, because that's what everyone wanted, and considering the fact that Tamil weavers had a tradition of acting in unison to influence state policy it would be interesting to see the effects of one of the Vijayanagara successor states governments being dominated by bourgeois interests, who would most likely seek to secure and extend their commercial interests in SE asia, which was anyway an important market for textiles otl and is right there. Whether this would influence the partially islamised emerging sultanates or could even halt the tide of islamisation could be interesting to explore.

Metallurgy is also a good one considering Damascus steel was so widely respected, so they could get animal powered railways sorted out as in Germany to help improve productivity in mines or figure out blast furnaces.

Beyond that I'm not too sure, I can't lie.

 

[Som910]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I started a new story, The Great Mughal (Akbar the Great SI) in the ASB board. Would love any suggestions/improvements you would recommend for the story.

 

[Kaushlendra pratap singh]

@Madhav Deval what you think.
Mughal india main problem was too much tax or money to the noble and normal peasant was too much poor, that's why who was king it's never matter to them .
The most important thing for any mughal wank, lowering the tax for farmer or peasant who mainly makes up of Hindu before forced conversion by Aurangzeb.
Mughal/Muslim ruler in india had a policy of 50-60% tax which degrade the position of the farmer.
Stop importing horse archer from central Asia and try for indian substitute in the army.
Decrease the value of the war economy in india. The early success of Maratha depend on the lower cost of army and as they start to replace mughal it's started to become too expansive and ever ending cycle of conflict in india will give the opportunity for rising of Maratha jat and Sikh like a community.
Have to develop university and institutions based on local language and then the Persian language.
Establish a position in government which represent the Hindu community like peshwa.
Maratha chhatrapati and Peshwa until madhavrao had the system of representative in there court which was attend by secretary of Chhatrapati/peshwa, whose office name was Sacheev.
Adopt a policy of none interference in Rajputana it was the most important reason for the fall of both Maratha and mughal .
For agricultural start rapid adoption of American vegetables.
And develop canal- lake system around india to be safe from flood.
After that I feel mughal have opportunities to go through until 20 century.

 

[Som910]

I agree. A university would be the first thing O suppose one would need.

High agricultural tax was something that was common to the world at that time, even a century later. But I get what you mean. Conversely, to lower agricultural tax, one would have to increase trade and the tax income on trade. Only then, projects like dams and canals can be financed.

They would need to destroy the Rajput chiefs, or they would anyway destabilize the rule. And I definitely agree about the cost of importing horses, with pikemen and gunners, they become obsolete soon enough.

The biggest problem, obviously, was the lack of a regimented army, which broke as soon as their mansabdar died. One would definitely need to correct that, when the Persian and Afghan Invaders come. Add to that the near complete disregard for a navy that meant that European powers controlled the ocean as early as 1600s, we have a recipe for colonialisation, which would have to be avoided.

I think that if the conquest of the Subcontinent was over a bit faster, and they had a navy, Mughal could have preempted much of the European colonisation in Asia. After all, even at a slight technological disadvantage, they could drown their enemies in numbers even better than Russia or Ottomans.

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

A university would be the first thing O suppose one would need.

Madrasas which catered to Hindus and Muslims and were centres of secular learning definitely were a thing- im presuming you already know about Akbar's curriculum? Perhaps Braj instead of Persian is a good middle ground as it at least has some literary tradition, especially with regards to Islamic literature which is important for a Persianate regime.

I can't lie, I disagree with a lot of what else you're saying here. The mansabdar system did work for near on a century, it only began to fail as mansabdars lost faith in the ability of the government to fairly distribute jagirs.

And I definitely agree about the cost of importing horses, with pikemen and gunners, they become obsolete soon enough.

I'd recommend the Mughals at War by Andrew De La Garza- Indian battlefields aren't European ones and until the 19th century, a balanced force including of central Asian horse archers who essentially live in the saddle is by far the best thing you can get- he posits that the drying up of supply of these light archers threw the equation out of balance and lead to a military reorganisation that eventually did make European style tactics more suitable to indian battlefields- that's not gonna happen while the Mughals are still strong. The majority of Mughal soldiers were definitely Indian footsoldiers as the military labour market was essentially infinite.

Adopt a policy of none interference in Rajputana it was the most important reason for the fall of both Maratha and mughal .

No the Rajputana was a core part of the Mughal elite you can't just have non interference, you need a coordinated Rajput policy.

They would need to destroy the Rajput chiefs, or they would anyway destabilize the rule.

You just can't get rid of all zamindars, the best bet is to domesticate them by transferring their status from martial to acquired through bureaucracy, artistic patronage and through hierarchy.

Establish a position in government which represent the Hindu community like peshwa.

There is no Hindu community at this time, just as there is no Muslim community- both those groups are far too varied and are essentially meaningless politically as Hindus will have different ethnic, religious, linguistic, factional and class based identities and priorities to other Hindus and the same with muslims.

Honestly though if your goal is a prosperous continent, you are so so much better off keeping the balance of power of the early 17th century. You have a Mughal north, two main deccan sultanates and the Vijayanagara successors.

Add to that the near complete disregard for a navy

They didn't have a navy because it wasn't worth the investment- just have the Europeans keep each other in check it's easier. That is the right decision for the Mughal state at this point.

Mughal/Muslim ruler in india had a policy of 50-60% tax which degrade the position of the farmer.

What's really important is to standardise taxation on excises and indirect taxation, land taxation can kinda be put to the side but what you absolutely definitely need more than anything else is to crack down on zamindars taking as much as they feel like on top of that. That's a lot easier the smaller your state is, and it's why Shivajis small kingdom was a lot more centralised and bureaucratic than the Maratha Empire or the Mughal Empire.

 

[Som910]

Madrasas which catered to Hindus and Muslims and were centres of secular learning definitely were a thing- im presuming you already know about Akbar's curriculum?

Granted, but again, Madrasas, I believe, were foundational training institutions. There was little avenue for higher learning when compared to Medieval Europe. What I am looking to build are centres where highly educated people can congregate, outside of court politics in the most part.

That was one major reason why innovation was so much more rapid in Europe.

I can't lie, I disagree with a lot of what else you're saying here. The mansabdar system did work for near on a century, it only began to fail as mansabdars lost faith in the ability of the government to fairly distribute jagirs.

Mansabdari as an administrative system was perhaps really good, but as a system for the army? Perhaps it did work to a certain extent, but I hope you would agree that a standing, professional army, with modern training and equipment, can actually work much better than a massive feudal leveed army. That's where I have a problem with Mansabdari.

The majority of Mughal soldiers were definitely Indian footsoldiers as the military labour market was essentially infinite.

I am not sure about the details, but foot soldiers were some of the least important parts of Mughal Army. They were large in numbers, but poorly paid and equipped. They didn't even keep large numbers of musketeers, at least in proportion. And while I agree that the Indian battlefields are not European ones, ultimately, they would have to achieve parity or ultimately suffer colonisation.

until the 19th century, a balanced force including of central Asian horse archers who essentially live in the saddle is by far the best thing you can get-

With flintlock and rifling, while the rate of fire would be reduced, the lethality of a volley of gunners would rout cavalry from far beyond the range of a horse archer. Just think, if any of the Sultanates had thought to import arms from Europe, it would have been massively devastating for the cavalry based Mughal army. The utter idiocy of your enemies is no excuse to be idiots yourself.

You just can't get rid of all zamindars, the best bet is to domesticate them by transferring their status from martial to acquired through bureaucracy, artistic patronage and through hierarchy.

I think my choice of words were a little wrong. Yes, by destroy, I meant the hyper-martial culture of the Rajputs, not them as a whole.

Honestly though if your goal is a prosperous continent, you are so so much better off keeping the balance of power of the early 17th century. You have a Mughal north, two main deccan sultanates and the Vijayanagara successors.

Honestly, had the integration of India been done a bit earlier, I don't think Maratha rebellions could have suceeded. Shivaji was fighting against an exhausted empire after Aurangzeb's wars of conquest.

And no, a divided subcontinent is not a very prosperous subcontinent. You would realize that the reason Russia became a Great Power was entirely it's massive population despite its relatively inept government, technological backwardness, corruption and poverty. So a united subcontinent, before 18th century, can actually try to project force and get a colonial empire for itself.

They didn't have a navy because it wasn't worth the investment-

Here I would like to say that a navy is never a dumb investment. At least, from a 18th century point of view. Control of Trade, Power Projection, Deterrence, a good navy gives you a lot of options, to be honest.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

India under the Mughals was quite advanced in agriculture, it was already well into using the seed drill, heavy ploughing, and had its own crop rotations, and was integrating New World crops like Maize and later the potato. During Akbar it was increasing overall land under cultivation through land reform and had created huge works to help with water supply. Mughal agriculture was already some of the most productive in the world at the time, its actually kind of hard to get it much better in the era... but there's a few modern innovations that could have come earlier to make it even better.

The Norfolk system itself definitely won't work in most of India, it wasn't created with India's double monsoon cycle in mind (or any monsoon cycle... in fact, its really designed specifically for temperate region crop cycles), but the key to the Norfolk system's success isn't the specific crops, its the methodology. The Norfolk crop system is based around growing fodder and grazing crops intermittently with staple crops to constantly have something growing and provide year round food for animals, all while rejuvenating the soil and helping to deal with pests that tend to accumulate over years of mono-croppping. Wheat-Mustard-Barley-Pulse works as a straight Norfolk stand in for places like Northern India that are less impacted by the Monsoon cycle, but its already in pretty wide use during the Mughals, so there's not much that can be done there to improve things. Rice however is one of the areas which has the opportunity for some pretty decent yield increases, and that's by increasing the adoption of integrated rice aquaculture in use in other parts of Asia, which India never widely adopted. Integrated rice aquaculture has pretty significantly helped with food security wherever its adopted, and the technique, while never widespread, has a long history through rice growing regions. There's a lot of different methods of rice aquaculture*, but I'm going to focus specifically on rice-fish/shrimp-azolla aquaculture, because that's the form most widely adopted in modern India.

The nice thing about rice is that it allows for a multi-trophic field to be developed with the right techniques, which the below linked article goes into in more depth. Put simply, rice-fish-azolla aquaculture uses the semi-aquatic nature of rice paddies to more effectively by using the other space in the paddy for other sources of food. By adding fish to the already flooded rice fields, you use the existing water to cultivate some extra protein, and the fish help deal with pests by eating them. Azolla in turn is a floating aquatic plant which helps shade the water the rice is in to shade out competition. It's also unique in that it maintains a symbiotic relationship with a nitrogen fixing bacteria which means it fixes its own nitrogen, and in fact enriches the paddy environment as a whole. It's also super high in protein by dry weight, and while not particularly edible or palatable to humans, it makes great animal feed. The rice and azolla together pretty much eliminate the need for fertilizer or rotation on a rice paddy since the azolla fixes most of the nutrients needed by rice, so it allows for more productive use of the paddy and allows for up to 2 rice crops in a year too. The fish give a nice form of added food security if a crop fails, and otherwise just add diversity to the diet. Azolla grows crazy fast (doubling in size every couple days) and can be harvested regularly for animal fodder.

There's other ways to increase productivity even more, ranging from ducks, to adding animal waste to the fields, and so on, but the principle is just to use the rice paddies more effectively by increasing the amount of things that can use the space. There can be challenges with implementation, since some of the different uses compete with each other, but rice aquaculture has a long history and is still in use today because its so effective in fighting famine. The biggest challenge is usually overcoming traditionally entrenched methods of rice farming.

*This Food and Agriculture Organization article is a pretty good place to start if you'd like to read more, but at 85 pages its not exactly light reading.

Great information/contribution

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

foundational training institutions.

This is incorrect. What I will say is that after Akbar, we don't really know to what degree, his curriculum was maintained as the Mughal state was simply too big to keep an eye on every single Madrasa. Still until the scientific revolution, a European University was no better than a Madrasa.

standing, professional army, with modern training and equipment

It's far too expensive to maintain a standing army at all times in a context of a military labour market of literally millions of people with military training where whenever you need some you can quickly gather hundreds of thousands. Read the paper.

The utter idiocy of your enemies is no excuse to be idiots yourself.

These people weren't idiots, all historical figures who weren't mentally ill have to be treated as at least semi rational actors shaped by their situation. They did in fact import European soldiers and commanders so you'd think if it was that much of a game changer someone would have been told. Read the paper.

You would realize that the reason Russia became a Great Power was entirely it's massive population

Russia is hardly the ideal model for becoming a great power- states with smaller populations are forced to become and are able to be so much more bureaucratic, accountable to their population and able to get rid of corruption. Because of all these factors that you mention, Russia was not prosperous even if you say it qualified as a Great Power- even without unification, the population of the Mughal state is ten times the Russian population in this period, so it already has all those advantages, any more and it just becomes harder and harder to manage. In a divided India a higher standard of living is more likely, and being divided never stopped western Europe from having colonies or being great powers, indeed being divided is what made them great powers and what caused them to have colonies.

Here I would like to say that a navy is never a dumb investment

Oh yeah it's better to have a navy than to not have a navy but for the Mughal state it's better to not have a navy than to not have the massive salaries you use to attract elites from across the Persianate world or to not have the money to pay for the constant mobile camp cities of 300,000 people.