Four Degrees

I came up with this idea few months ago, but due to schoolwork and an added workload of having a job, I was never able to research the topics to the point where I felt comfortable writing a TL (which, IMO becomes guesswork a week after the POD). Anyways, the idea is that four people are "removed" from the Timeline around the 1920s. They aren't very influential, but within 20 years they would become household names. Here are the four people affected, and the PODs involved.

1. Adolf Hitler. Killed by a stray bullet during the Beer Hall Putsch.

2. Josef Stalin. Lenin stays healthy a few months longer, and makes sure that Stalin doesn't get the popularity to get into office. Stalin is quietly executed outside of Moscow and buried in the snow.

3. Franklin Roosevelt. He dies of his illness gained in Canada in 1921.

4. Albert Einstein. Shortly after receiving the Nobel Prize for his explanation of the photoelectric effect, he is killed in a chance accident.

Now, I ask you, denizens of AH.com, what do you think would happen to this world, both in the immediate aftermath of the PODs and extrapolating predictions possibly into the next decade or two?
 
Without Hitler, the Nazi movement would be far less powerful. Perhaps the Germans would place a different dictator (Himmler? Goering) in place, although I think this is unlikely. There would probably be a different, stronger government, still democratic but more powerful, that resulted in the late 1930's from German frustration. There would still be German secret rearming, although the Germans probably wouldn't be very aggressive against the Allies.
 
Without Hitler, the Nazi movement would be far less powerful. Perhaps the Germans would place a different dictator (Himmler? Goering) in place, although I think this is unlikely. There would probably be a different, stronger government, still democratic but more powerful, that resulted in the late 1930's from German frustration. There would still be German secret rearming, although the Germans probably wouldn't be very aggressive against the Allies.

The Nazis would have remained a disunited rabble, destroying themselves in street fights and not going down the historical accpunt as more than a bunch of street thugs.
The society was still going down the drain for economic reason and the Communist threats appeared very real (no matter whether it WAS real or not), so most probably some combination of nationalistic, conservative authoritarian government (Schleicher/Papen or somebody very much like them) would take over, dismantle the democracy and rule with support of the Reichswehr - think Spain under Franco, just a bit better off.
 
The Nazis would have remained a disunited rabble, destroying themselves in street fights and not going down the historical accpunt as more than a bunch of street thugs.
The society was still going down the drain for economic reason and the Communist threats appeared very real (no matter whether it WAS real or not), so most probably some combination of nationalistic, conservative authoritarian government (Schleicher/Papen or somebody very much like them) would take over, dismantle the democracy and rule with support of the Reichswehr - think Spain under Franco, just a bit better off.

Exactly what I was thinking. What would the Germans do in the Spanish Civil War though? Nothing in my opinion.
 
2. Josef Stalin. Lenin stays healthy a few months longer, and makes sure that Stalin doesn't get the popularity to get into office. Stalin is quietly executed outside of Moscow and buried in the snow.

Kamenev, Zinoviev and Bukharin vs. Trotsky for the Soviet leadership?

Would we see a more rural-based communism develop in the event of the 'right opposition' (although they obviously wouldn't be called that ITTL) winning the power struggle? The usual assertion with this is that they wouldn't have been able to stand up to German aggression without the industrial buildup, but that wouldn't seem to matter without the Nazis gaining power.
 
Kamenev, Zinoviev and Bukharin vs. Trotsky for the Soviet leadership?
Perhaps Trotsky would cut a deal with them for some sort of joint rule (wasn't Lenin grooming him as a successor? A few more months of Lenin could do well for Trotsky's image), then have them assassinated at a later date? Also, do you think it's likely that the Comintern stays around ITTL?

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about Soviet politics
 
I would also say that without the persecution of Jews, Einstein would have stayed in Germany and helped them with nuke technology instead of going to the US, but then I realized that he died too.

The Space Race would be interesting. Germany has more rocket science brains than America and the USSR combined, but not enough economic power to mount a full space program.
 
Perhaps Trotsky would cut a deal with them for some sort of joint rule (wasn't Lenin grooming him as a successor? A few more months of Lenin could do well for Trotsky's image), then have them assassinated at a later date? Also, do you think it's likely that the Comintern stays around ITTL?

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about Soviet politics

I think the problem is that the rest of the Politburo really disliked Trotsky - although you're right in saying that Lenin was drawing him closer in his final months, so a while longer could lead to this partnership (and its effects on the succession) being more pronounced.

I'd quite like to see a 'socialism in one country' scenario where the peasants are the main focus - and how this would develop in the abscence of an agressive Germany.
 
Without Adolf Hitler, the Nazis probably disintegrate pretty quickly during the period in which they were banned as a political party. Their supporters probably form another far-right party but don't do as well because they lack a strong leader like Hitler. Communist revolution seems the most likely outcome in Germany.

With Stalin out the picture, I'm not so sure. Possibly a Trotsky-led Soviet Union?

No Franklin Roosevelt means you get a red United States in the thirties.
 
I don't think the US would go Communist. Why It Didn't Happen Here explains it much better than I can. The Bourbons will remain in control of the Democratic Party, which means that the GOP will stick to its center-left, progressive roots and the Dems will be the party of the Right. The Bourbons had led the US through economic meltdowns before (Panic of 1893 anyone) so this would follow historical precedent.
 
With no FDR and no New Deal, the Great Depression would have ended a little bit sooner. Just my 2 cents ;)
 
4. Albert Einstein. Shortly after receiving the Nobel Prize for his explanation of the photoelectric effect, he is killed in a chance accident.
He received his Nobel in 1921 and had already published General Relativity during WWI. So, he would be even MORE famous as a physicist (at least to physicists), as he wouldn't have thrown away his reputation by refusing to accept quantum mechanics.

In such a universe, people would say 'if only he lived, we'd have had a Theory of Everything' already' - when of course, Einstein spent the rest of his career exploring blind alleys.

On the off chance that you think Einstein had anything to do with the Abomb - the only thing he did was write one letter (possibly sign a letter someone else had written). Given the other changes, his death is going to be largely irrelevant.
 

Geon

Donor
No World War II

Here is how I would see the world in the coming decades without Hitler, Roosevelt, Stalin, or Einstein.

Germany--Germany has no Third Reich. Adolf Hitler was the uniting force that brought together disparate men and groups and united them to form the Nazi nightmare. Without Hitler the German Worker's Party never develops beyond a right-wing fringe party. Germany remains a crippled power through the thirties, probably into the forties, during which time she slowly but surely falls into the hands of the communists.

Russia--After several years of sometimes lethal backroom politics Trotsky emerges as the titular head of the Soviet Union. However, he does not wield the same power that Stalin did. Trotsky has the goals of modernizing Russian industry, vastly improving the Russian army, and trying to improve relations with the West.

Italy--Mussolini still succeeds in taking Ethiopia and later Albania. In 1941 he still attempts to invade Greece. However without help from Hitler as in OTL the invasion is a disaster. The Greco-Italian War lasts for 8 months. By the end of the war Mussolini has been deposed and the new government relinquishes it's claim on Albania but not Ethiopia which remains under Italian control.

Britain--No Churchill. Here it's very simple; no World War II, no need for Churchill.

Japan--Japan still invades China in 1937. After four years of war China surrenders and cedes land in eastern and central China to Japan in return for an end to the war. Japan emerges as the premier power in the Far East while China descends into civil war.

Unites States--Whatever else be said about Roosevelt (OOC--and this is from a person who considers his politics conservative), his optimism and can-do attitude saw the nation through a difficult time in history. Without his New Deal and several other attempts at reform and more importantly without World War II the Depression lasts well into the 1940's. The U.S. military remains at its 1930's levels and little is done to modernize it. More attention is paid to domestic projects. A lot would depend on what presidents replace Roosevelt.

So, by 1950 I would say we have an Eastern Europe which is falling more and more under communist control. Germany is already communist and eager to join with Moscow. France is becoming more and more nervous and is willing to enter into a NATO-like alliance with Britain and the other Western European nations to prevent Russian encroachment.

In addition, Japan is now the most dominant power in Asia, possibly in the world. She now stands ready to make major demands of the Western European nations and the U.S. A war in the Pacific is definitely a possibility here which may or may not include Soviet involvement.

Atomic weapons do not develop until the mid 1950's or later. And my bet is that it is Japan that is the first. She will have the resources and the technology to do so. The Soviets will be next. The U.S. due to its isolationism sees no need to develop nuclear weapons and so does not join the "nuclear club" at least for now. (1950's)

The prime crisis points in this world are Greece (a civil war between communists and nationalists aided by foreign powers on both sides), China (insurrections in the occupied zones of Chinese territory aided by communist and nationalist Chinese as well as possible help from the colonial powers), the central and southern Pacific region (demands by Japan for territory controlled by the colonial powers and the U.S., maybe even Hawaii.

So my thoughts are by the 1950's we may be looking at a global war centered in the Pacific.

How plausible does this sound?

Geon
 
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