Foreign Ambassadors to CSA?

Anaxagoras

Banned
In a CS Victory TL, who do we think might be the Union, British, French and Russian ambassadors to the Confederate States in the years following the war? Assume a 1863 POD. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
Russia was pro-Union. They are unlikely to recognize the Confederacy, let alone send an ambassador. There's also a good chance the Union won't send an ambassador to the Confederacy, either.

Britain and France will send envoys, not ambassadors. In period, ambassadors were only sent to major nations or countries with related ruling houses. The US and Britain didn't upgrade from envoy to ambassador until 1893 in OTL. The Confederacy might be unimportant enough that Britain and France they only send resident minister instead of envoys.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Russia was pro-Union. They are unlikely to recognize the Confederacy, let alone send an ambassador. There's also a good chance the Union won't send an ambassador to the Confederacy, either.

If the war is over and Confederate independence is an acknowledged fact, the United States obviously would obviously send some sort of representative.

Britain and France will send envoys, not ambassadors. In period, ambassadors were only sent to major nations or countries with related ruling houses. The US and Britain didn't upgrade from envoy to ambassador until 1893 in OTL. The Confederacy might be unimportant enough that Britain and France they only send resident minister instead of envoys.

True, true. I'm less interested in the rank than the personage, though.
 
If the war is over and Confederate independence is an acknowledged fact, the United States obviously would obviously send some sort of representative.

The United States had no representative to Russia between 1917 and 1933. I doubt they'd like the Confederates any more than the later US liked the Communists, so why would the Union send an ambassador?
 
The United States had no representative to Russia between 1917 and 1933. I doubt they'd like the Confederates any more than the later US liked the Communists, so why would the Union send an ambassador?

There's a difference; the United States did not recognize the Soviet Union as holding sovereignty over any of the territory that it claimed, i.e. did not recognize the Soviets as a legitimate government at all. However if the Confederacy is victorious, then the United States recognizing the Confederacy is going to be a prerequisite.
 
There's a difference; the United States did not recognize the Soviet Union as holding sovereignty over any of the territory that it claimed, i.e. did not recognize the Soviets as a legitimate government at all. However if the Confederacy is victorious, then the United States recognizing the Confederacy is going to be a prerequisite.


Furthermore, initially the USSR did not recognize any existing government as "legitimate" - there were supposed to be Communist revolutions everywhere.
 

Pangur

Donor
Britain and France will send envoys, not ambassadors. In period, ambassadors were only sent to major nations or countries with related ruling houses. The US and Britain didn't upgrade from envoy to ambassador until 1893 in OTL. The Confederacy might be unimportant enough that Britain and France they only send resident minister instead of envoys.

If I read this correctly then the pecking order goes

Ambassador -> envoy -> resident minister

Whats the difference between them?
 
Lord Lyons might be shifted from Washington to Richmond. Depends on how independence came about and Britain's involvement (even politically/diplomatically).
 
If I read this correctly then the pecking order goes

Ambassador -> envoy -> resident minister

Whats the difference between them?
Prestige?

There was also 'Ambassador and Minister Plenipotentiary', for ambassadors who had actually been authorised to negotiate treaties (within specified limits) between their own homelands & their host countries and to ratify those treaties without needing to send the details home for approval there first, but that was a relatively rare appointment.
 
Prestige?

There was also 'Ambassador and Minister Plenipotentiary', for ambassadors who had actually been authorised to negotiate treaties (within specified limits) between their own homelands & their host countries and to ratify those treaties without needing to send the details home for approval there first, but that was a relatively rare appointment.

I think those were separate titles, probably depending upon nations, I know that there were many Minister Plenipotentiaries that served thru out the 19th century.

I doubt you would be able to figure out a particular personage, names of indivduals would be entirely speculation on the part of us.
 
If the war is over and Confederate independence is an acknowledged fact, the United States obviously would obviously send some sort of representative.

Obviously yes the Confederacy would be recognized by the Union in the event of a victorious Confederacy. Such a recognition would probably be forced upon them by Britain and France. I would think the Union would initially send an ambassador the Southerners hated. I imagine Benjamin Butler would have been perfect if that's what the Union wanted to do.

As far as a Russian ambassador goes, who knows? I don't imagine they would have been one of the first nations to recognize the Confederacy. If Britain and France are first, I would imagine Austria or Prussia would follow if only to get their hands in the peace process. Russia would only recognize the Confederacy after the dust settled. I don't imagine Italy would have been that quick to recognize the CSA either.
 
Obviously yes the Confederacy would be recognized by the Union in the event of a victorious Confederacy. Such a recognition would probably be forced upon them by Britain and France. I would think the Union would initially send an ambassador the Southerners hated. I imagine Benjamin Butler would have been perfect if that's what the Union wanted to do.

As far as a Russian ambassador goes, who knows? I don't imagine they would have been one of the first nations to recognize the Confederacy. If Britain and France are first, I would imagine Austria or Prussia would follow if only to get their hands in the peace process. Russia would only recognize the Confederacy after the dust settled. I don't imagine Italy would have been that quick to recognize the CSA either.

No, more likely it would be an acknowledgement like GB did after the ARW. GB and France wouldn't force a thing. What good would that do them? It just pisses the US more off and wouldn't change a thing. If the US doesn't want to talk to the CSA and sends a rep based on pressure from GB and France he would go but be given absolutely no power to do anything. If the US decides to send a rep Butler seems a good choice.
 

iddt3

Donor
No, more likely it would be an acknowledgement like GB did after the ARW. GB and France wouldn't force a thing. What good would that do them? It just pisses the US more off and wouldn't change a thing. If the US doesn't want to talk to the CSA and sends a rep based on pressure from GB and France he would go but be given absolutely no power to do anything. If the US decides to send a rep Butler seems a good choice.
Well if they REALLY wanted to piss them off they could send Fredrick Douglass.
 
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