Forced de-secregation after civilwar

Lets say the insteed of letting the South continue to keep the secregation until the 1950s. What if the Washington had forcible de-segregated the South after the Civilwar?? And made black and white equal?

When would have had seen the first black president? If yes who?

/Fred
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Lets say the insteed of letting the South continue to keep the secregation until the 1950s. What if the Washington had forcible de-segregated the South after the Civilwar?? And made black and white equal?

When would have had seen the first black president? If yes who?

/Fred

Segregation and the "Jim Crow" laws are phenomenon of the post-ACW USA, not the CSA. While there were slaves, there were free blacks, and the racist doctrines in question didn't exist in the CSA.

Equality it wasn't though. More a serf system than an apartheid one.
 
As 67 said, segregation was a post-ACW phenomenon in OTL. What racism that did exist in the South was unextinguishable, and forcing an entire population to alter their mindset generally doesn't end well.
 
there was a small article in the atlantic last week where they compaired the net worth of slaves given there 40 acres and a mule after the war (a small minority) and the slaves that did not (the vast majority...at the turn of the century) the one given lands financial worth equaled out to 90% of your average white while the one's who had to go at it alone were worth 30%...
What if the radicals had there way and forty acres and a mule were forceable redistributed to every black family.....
much much more white flight from the south to the west
no need for black flight to the north
a more sable south politicly and ecognomicly dominated by blacks
and most importantly a strong proud prosperous people instead of an insecure, self-hating,bitter detitute people
 
there was a small article in the atlantic last week where they compaired the net worth of slaves given there 40 acres and a mule after the war (a small minority) and the slaves that did not (the vast majority...at the turn of the century) the one given lands financial worth equaled out to 90% of your average white while the one's who had to go at it alone were worth 30%...
What if the radicals had there way and forty acres and a mule were forceable redistributed to every black family.....
much much more white flight from the south to the west
no need for black flight to the north
a more sable south politicly and ecognomicly dominated by blacks
and most importantly a strong proud prosperous people instead of an insecure, self-hating,bitter detitute people
I'd say that you'd see a resurgence in violence in the former CSA, as Union forces strip both poor and rich of their land and redistribute it to black families in need. While the rich can flee elsewhere, the destitute of South not destined to receive forty acres and a mule are far more likely to react violently and illegally.

The Ku Klux Klan and other organizations of that sort would see a huge swelling in numbers, and while on paper the South is part of the Union, many parts outside of Union-garrisoned towns would be ruled by vigilantes, guerrilla fighters, and a motley crew of thugs and criminals.

Race relations would be far, far worse off. As for the South as a region? Devastated by the increase in crime and conflict, and paralyzed by a lack of Union garrisons after the Civil War and an end to drafting, the former states that once made up the CSA would take far longer to recover from the tragedies and destruction of the Civil War.
 
I'd say that you'd see a resurgence in violence in the former CSA, as Union forces strip both poor and rich of their land and redistribute it to black families in need. While the rich can flee elsewhere, the destitute of South not destined to receive forty acres and a mule are far more likely to react violently and illegally.

The Ku Klux Klan and other organizations of that sort would see a huge swelling in numbers, and while on paper the South is part of the Union, many parts outside of Union-garrisoned towns would be ruled by vigilantes, guerrilla fighters, and a motley crew of thugs and criminals.

Race relations would be far, far worse off. As for the South as a region? Devastated by the increase in crime and conflict, and paralyzed by a lack of Union garrisons after the Civil War and an end to drafting, the former states that once made up the CSA would take far longer to recover from the tragedies and destruction of the Civil War.


simple...we give the blacks guns , train them and form militia's out of them....and since there are so many more recently liberated blacks then white southerners like the shites vs. sunni's in iraq the majority group is bound to win as long as political support is maintained....a more race crazy , conservative west will be the result
 
simple...we give the blacks guns , train them and form militia's out of them....and since there are so many more recently liberated blacks then white southerners like the shites vs. sunni's in iraq the majority group is bound to win as long as political support is maintained....a more race crazy , conservative west will be the result

Giving an enitre group of people guns is rarely a good solution to a problem. Its also not all that plausible.
 
Segregation and the "Jim Crow" laws are phenomenon of the post-ACW USA, not the CSA. While there were slaves, there were free blacks, and the racist doctrines in question didn't exist in the CSA.

Equality it wasn't though. More a serf system than an apartheid one.
Of course there wasn't segregation in schools in the South. That, of course, is in no small part due to the fact that there were no schools for blacks, and that most southern states had laws making it illegal to teach blacks to read, let alone higher mathematics. Blacks that had any education were either taught by their master's family, taught by their own family/friends, or taught themselves.

But 67th has it right, really. It's hard to have school segregation when a large part of the population doesn't get the opportunity to go to school in the first place.
 
true there will be lingering ugly resentment...but like there isint any today? desegragation wont be an issue if segragation isint an obvious.....90% of african americans will be liveing in states dominated demographicly and politicly by african americans...with a smattering of exiles while the old southern whites will be demographicly exiled to the western fringe...wyoming and what not....massive short term instability and strife in exchange for long term stability....this is the price of justice

we are still paying for the sins of yesteryear because the cost of justice was considerd to high at the time
 
:confused:
Blacks were a majority in a few states, but they were hardly a super-majority or even a simple majority in the CSA. You have a blackbelt dominated population-wise by blacks, but the political structure? White as whitewash. They didn't call it the "one drop" rule for nothing.
 
simple...we give the blacks guns , train them and form militia's out of them....and since there are so many more recently liberated blacks then white southerners like the shites vs. sunni's in iraq the majority group is bound to win as long as political support is maintained....a more race crazy , conservative west will be the result
So you would encourage the South to kill itself off by supplying the weaker, but more numerous faction with weapons? Brilliant, positively Brilliant. The best bloodthirsty tyrants out there would love to know more.

How will you be able to afford fighting the next inevitable Civil War out west? You said yourself many of the former Confederates would simply flee that way- what's to stop them from trying to rebel again, but this time even further away from Federal power?
true there will be lingering ugly resentment...but like there isint any today? desegragation wont be an issue if segragation isint an obvious.....90% of african americans will be liveing in states dominated demographicly and politicly by african americans...with a smattering of exiles while the old southern whites will be demographicly exiled to the western fringe...wyoming and what not....massive short term instability and strife in exchange for long term stability....this is the price of justice

we are still paying for the sins of yesteryear because the cost of justice was considerd to high at the time
I'm sorry, but this is just getting stupid. You're suggesting the United States act like some sort of emotionless autocratic government where citizens of the nation are encouraged to fight each other to balance out demographics, where segregation on a regional scale is enforced by gunpoint, and the sheer expense of everything is completely ignored by the government, leading to massive debt and likely a faltering economy.

No, that's just daft in the head. That isn't the American way, the British way, or the way of any self-respecting civilization. There are limits for a reason.
 
So you would encourage the South to kill itself off by supplying the weaker, but more numerous faction with weapons? Brilliant, positively Brilliant. The best bloodthirsty tyrants out there would love to know more.

How will you be able to afford fighting the next inevitable Civil War out west? You said yourself many of the former Confederates would simply flee that way- what's to stop them from trying to rebel again, but this time even further away from Federal power?

.

the homestead act will be designed to favor land hungry grand army of the republic veterins and and immigrants...demographicly balancing out the angry disenfranchised white southeners"

how about to isolate the ex plantation owners further we give poor southern whites some land and power withen the south as well as well giveing them some common cause with the liberated black majority
 
I don't think there was any real need to disenfranchise the whites to give the freed slaves '40 acres and a mule.' One surprising fact I turned up in one my ACW books is that the south had some big unsettled areas; apparently after the war, a lot of immigrants went south as well as west, at least at first. The only advantage to breaking up the big plantations was that it was already cleared and cultivated... the empty government land would be hard to work that first year. Still, if the fed. govt. had really wanted to, it could have left all the whites their land and given more to the freed slaves... yet in the end, neither side wanted to do all that hard work, and immigrants ended up settling most of the new lands...
 
So you would encourage the South to kill itself off by supplying the weaker, but more numerous faction with weapons? Brilliant, positively Brilliant. The best bloodthirsty tyrants out there would love to know more.

How will you be able to afford fighting the next inevitable Civil War out west? You said yourself many of the former Confederates would simply flee that way- what's to stop them from trying to rebel again, but this time even further away from Federal power?

I'm not sure that whites are going to resond, though.

One thing that's been forgotten is that quite a few whites were voting Republican after the Civil War down south.
 
Top