For Want of A Sandwich - A Franz Ferdinand Lives Wikibox TL

[MaskedPickle]

 

[MaskedPickle]

Can you do Japanese revolution

It will. I'm at the moment focused on the Great European War update.

On that note, was he assassinated the same way Mountbatten was assassinated IOTL or was he assassinated in some other way (maybe he became the "first British astronaut" ITTL the same way Blanco was "Spain's first astronaut" IOTL)?

Britain already had astronauts by then, but he was a clear candidate.

What this TL's style of using wikiboxes does very well is pinball readers like me from "ok good" to "oh shit" very quickly just with the names listed here. Quite a blursed lineup of PMs for Japan here, which seems to have undergone some quite "interesting times"...

It's what I want when doing wikiboxes.

Will we get an infobox on the Sunrise and Democratic parties of Japan? What are they like? What kind of parties are they like compared to Japan’s OTL political parties?

Well, the political landscape in Japan is much more violent and far less hegemonic than OTL. The Sunrise Party is very right-wing, pro-monarchist and chauvinistic, while the Democratic Party looks towards European political culture, being center-left-to-centre.

Especially as Sadao Araki’s Kodoha was even more radical than the Toseiha which won out IOTL in quite a few ways and here, he seems to have taken over Japan for quite a while. And speaking of which, what became of Ikki Kita here with how he heavily influenced the Kodoha IOTL and ended up executed after 2/26 as a result of that?

Ikki Kita was a power behind the throne during that time.

 

[Whiteshore]

Britain already had astronauts by then, but he was a clear candidate.

So, I take that as a confirmation he was assassinated in a similar manner to Admiral Blanco IOTL, complete with people joking he became an astronaut and all that?

Ikki Kita was a power behind the throne during that time.

Would it be correct to view him as the ideologue behind the Kodoha's rule ITTL? And on that note, what became of people who were prominent in the Toseiha IOTL with how Sadao Araki ran Japan here?

 

[MaskedPickle]

 

[MaskedPickle]

So, I take that as a confirmation he was assassinated in a similar manner to Admiral Blanco IOTL, complete with people joking he became an astronaut and all that?

Would it be correct to view him as the ideologue behind the Kodoha's rule ITTL? And on that note, what became of people who were prominent in the Toseiha IOTL with how Sadao Araki ran Japan here?

Yes, one can't help British humour.
Either purged or left to operational businesses... Tojo was killed in a failed coup attempt for example.

 

[X_X]

Speaking of the Gulf States, are Dubai and Sharjah still in control of their enclaves and exclaves, or are those Oman’s possessions?

 

[MaskedPickle]

 

[MaskedPickle]

Speaking of the Gulf States, are Dubai and Sharjah still in control of their enclaves and exclaves, or are those Oman’s possessions?

They were lost to Oman, with British and Hashemite approval.

 

[MaskedPickle]

 

[Whiteshore]

Who assassinated Massa and what method of assassination was used on him?

 

[KingSweden24]

Boy there are some unusually cursed names on this list even by Argentine standards

Almirón and Rico back to back 😬 the one-way helicopter ride industry was probably very busy in those years

 

[Whiteshore]

Boy there are some unusually cursed names on this list even by Argentine standards

Almirón and Rico back to back 😬 the one-way helicopter ride industry was probably very busy in those years

It gets more cursed with how Rega was also President of Argentina ITTL, on that note.

 

[KingSweden24]

It gets more cursed with how Rega was also President of Argentina ITTL, on that note.

Oooof yes three in a row there. Yikes

 

[Whiteshore]

On a lighter note, considering Reutemann was President of Argentina ITTL, how does motorsports compare to OTL, especially in the case of Grand Prix motorsport/TTL's equivalent to Formula 1?

 

[TheDetailer]

Compared to in our timeline, who are among the best country leaders in this timeline?

Jorge Eliecer Gaitan for example seems to have been a good leader for Colombia, and Nabila Mounib seems to be doing a good job for Morocco in this timeline.

 

[Petike]

The Slovak Question is a long-running issue in Hungary. Since the formation of the Kingdom of Hungary in the Middle Ages through nowadays, including during the Ottoman conquest of Hungary, the area claimed to be the Slovak Homeland has been an integrant province of Hungary, known as Upper Hungary (Felvidék) ; nevertheless, Slovak nationalists, since the beginnings of Bohemian nationalism, have claimed that Slovaks had always been a separate Slavic identity and pushed for Slovak independence.

Never recognized as a separate people during either the Holy Roman Empire, the Austrian Empire, Austria-Hungary or the Danubian Federation, even if the foundations of the latter was formed in Pressburg (nowadays Pozsony, called Bratislava in Slovak), Upper Hungary has been a Hungarian province since the declaration of Hungarian independence in 1927. The 1934 and the 1948 Constitution, insisting on the superiority of the Hungarian race and the unity of Hungary, made no case for the ethnic minorities of the Kingdom ; a tight policy of Magyarization was enforced in Upper Hungary and Transylvania, with any public use of the Slovak or Romanian languages being forbidden ; military revolts in 1934 and 1947, led by French Army veteran and astronomer Milan Stefanik, were quelled by the Hungarian Army both times.

View attachment 662699

The 1968 protests represented a shift in the Slovak Question. Student protests in Budapest and Pozsony, the success of the French Situationist Revolution and a new generation of Slovak nationalists led to the September Uprising, Starting with Slovak civil servants, students and workers refusing to take their duties, the uprising turned in the space of a week into a full-fledged rebellion, asking for recognition and autonomy from Hungary ; the Hungarian Army repressed violently the troubles, yet the situation led Romania to invade their neighbour, starting the Third Hungarian-Romanian War. The Hungarian government began to give better help to Upper Hungary, that experienced stronger development with the Danubian Dam Network, reaching its apex with the selection as Hungarian Prime Minister of Sandor Dubcsek, a Magyarized ethnic Slovak, leader of the Hungarian Social Democrats, and the 1979 Constitution, that allowed semi-official use of Slovak in public and in Upper Hungary.

The Dubcsek era was synonymous with strong development in Upper Hungary, yet it inspired Slovak nationalists, who saw Dubcsek as a traitor and began to press for independence. Led by Víťazoslav Móric, the nationalists won the 1988 regional elections in Upper Hungary and turned to direct confrontation with the Pyrist Magyar Party, that won the 1989 legislative elections in Hungary. After two years of troubles and steady refusal from the Hungarian government, Móric proclaimed the independence of Upper Hungary as the Republic of Slovakia on October, 28 1991. The independent nation was recognized by no other country before it was invaded and repressed by the Hungarian Army the following day. Slovak nationalists were exiled and prosecuted.

View attachment 662700

The Slovak issue remained unsolved until demonstrations for greater autonomy during Spring 2018 pushed Hungarian Prime Minister Miklós Sarközy granted the 1991 leaders amnesty and Upper Hungary with greater autonomy, acknowleding the official use and teaching of Slovak in Upper Hungary, on July, 1 2018. The move infuriated Sarközy’s base but allowed him to form a coalition government with autonomist parties such as the Slovak People’s Party. Now well implemented in Upper Hungary and holding the ministries of Housing, Labour and Transportation, the Slovak People’s Party continues to carry the interests of the Slovak people, even if inner fractions continue to push for independence.

View attachment 662701

View attachment 662702
Sandor Dubcsek (27 November 1921-7 November 2004) was the Prime Minister of Hungary on two separate occasions, from 16 May 1976 to 13 September 1979 and from 18 May 1980 to 22 May 1988, serving for the Social Democratic Party of Hungary. An ethnic Slovak, born Alexander Dubček in then Austria-Hungary to Syndicalist parents who were killed during the Danubian War, he was orphaned at a young age and had his name Magyarized under the terms of the 1934 Constitution.

A civil servant, working in the Forestry Service of Hungary, he adhered to the Social Democratic Party when Hungary was considered an authoritarian democracy ; he took advantage of the liberalization decided by King Charles V to undertake the ailing left-wing party and lead it to power in the 1976 general elections, becoming the first Hungarian Prime Minister coming from the left since Hungarian independence. He famously said to the King on his first audience “I’m sorry, Sir, but I’m not a monarchist” ; Charles V famously replied “Neither do I !”

Under the motto of “Hungarianism with a human face”, Dubcsek worked closely with the King and his palace to have a more democratic Constitution adopted, that would recognize a small degree of autonomy for Slovak and Romanian minorities while normalizing the democratic proccess ; it led to the 1979 Constitution, that infuriated the right wing, culminating in a coup d’Etat by General Pongratz on September, 13 1979 and the abdication of the King. Nevertheless, the counter-coup of General Olah on April, 20 1980 allowed Dubsek to return to power after new, free elections were convened in May.

Serving for three terms, each won by a clear majority of the Social Democratic Party, Dubscek embarked on a liberal agenda, developing Hungary with the Danubian Dam Network and an agrarian reform, while closely cooperating with Germany with building the Hungarian portion of the Polish Wall. Nevertheless, Hungary was hit by the 1983 krach and after he had been appointed Magnate by the King (while refusing to be ennobled), Dubscek withdrew from power after the 1988 election, giving his position and his leadership to Miklos Haraszti, who became the first Jewish Hungarian Head of Governement. Remaining active in Hungarian politics, Dubscek died of old age at 82, in his office of the Parliament.

Hailed as a great legislator and the father of Hungarian democracy, Dubscek remains a polarizing figure in Hungary, with the right wing accusing him of ceding too much to the minorities, while Slovaks treated him as a traitor, as he rejected his Slovak heritage for the sake of Hungary, and refusing many times, after he had left the government, to make a stand on the Slovak Question, including during the 1991 Slovak Uprising.

A bit too parallelistic for my tastes. I also doubt Hungary would have a military always capable of taking down the revolts. The OTL 20th century military reputation of Hungary was akin to that of Italy. Unless Britain kept Ireland, I find it unlikely that Hungary would have kept Slovakia. Even OTL Slovenia left former Yugoslavia, without Yugoslavia capable of doing anything substantial. Also, if Franz Ferdinand had lived, he would have favoured a federalisation, even against Hungary's wishes.

 

[MaskedPickle]

 

[MaskedPickle]

Who assassinated Massa and what method of assassination was used on him?

Fernando Sebag Montiel, who shot at him.

Boy there are some unusually cursed names on this list even by Argentine standards

Almirón and Rico back to back 😬 the one-way helicopter ride industry was probably very busy in those years

It gets more cursed with how Rega was also President of Argentina ITTL, on that note.

Oooof yes three in a row there. Yikes

Argentina had a very bumpy ride.

On a lighter note, considering Reutemann was President of Argentina ITTL, how does motorsports compare to OTL, especially in the case of Grand Prix motorsport/TTL's equivalent to Formula 1?

Motorsports are quite popular, mostly with the older generations ; the sports didn't benefit from the same makeover than OTL.

Compared to in our timeline, who are among the best country leaders in this timeline?

Jorge Eliecer Gaitan for example seems to have been a good leader for Colombia, and Nabila Mounib seems to be doing a good job for Morocco in this timeline.

Well, define "best". A good leader for Germany isn't generally a good leader for African and East European countries. Do you define it as "Gandhi-best" or "Reagan-best"?

A bit too parallelistic for my tastes. I also doubt Hungary would have a military always capable of taking down the revolts. The OTL 20th century military reputation of Hungary was akin to that of Italy. Unless Britain kept Ireland, I find it unlikely that Hungary would have kept Slovakia. Even OTL Slovenia left former Yugoslavia, without Yugoslavia capable of doing anything substantial. Also, if Franz Ferdinand had lived, he would have favoured a federalisation, even against Hungary's wishes.

Hungary benefitted from Russian support ITTL and were quite good in manufacturing themselves as a regional powerhouse. As of Slovakia, it's way too close from Budapest for them to allow separation.

 

[bill clinton01]

Based on the list, I presume the Musks didnt make it out in time?

 

[TheDetailer]

Well, define "best". A good leader for Germany isn't generally a good leader for African and East European countries. Do you define it as "Gandhi-best" or "Reagan-best"?

Well, I would say something like if most people from those OTL countries saw those leaders ITTL, whenever they be “Gandhi-best” or “Reagan-best”, and they would think “darn, we really missed out on having somebody good in charge of our country back in our universe” or something like that. Basically, compared to in our timeline, how good or well-liked, historically or contemporary, are these leaders in this timeline, that hypothetically if people from OTL read about them like we are doing here, might wish they were elected/became leader of their nation in their timeline, if that makes sense.

For a reversed scenario, if this is still confusing that is, it would be like if a ITTL person read about FDR from our timeline, thinking that FDR would’ve made a good President in their timeline. Or a ITTL progressive Kiwi reading about Jacinda Arden from OTL, and wishing her family stayed in New Zealand in their timeline.