Distance. Supporting an ad across three thousand miles of open ocean is an utter nightmare, right up to modern (World War era) times.
For the Want of a King TL: Prussia loses the War of Austrian Succession
- Thread starter Gwrtheyrn Annwn
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- 1700s tl austrian tl
According to what i have found out the population of Louisiana in OTL is roughly 500,000.
Disaster at Leuthen it's about the same premise with Austria winning the war against Prussia and goes from there.
Basically this such a campaign after this latest war would be hugely unpopular
French sources says that it was closer to 50,000, and an english one gave me 60,000 in 1803...
source: https://books.google.ca/books?id=PH...age&q=Population of Louisiana in 1803&f=false
From my forum a link i had found.
Why did French Canadians retain their Francophone heritage better than French Louisianans did?
The Louisiana Empire is made op:
The French parts of Canada: 300,000 people.
The French parts of the USA: 76,000 people.
Some immigration to then French Louisiana: 50,000.
Texas which is also part of the empire: 10 to 20,000.
Yeah, but at first, and for more than a year, Louisiana was just Louisiana, and the French could field more men than the actual population of that place. The fact that they didn't is still not explained. The French sent close to ten thousand soldiers for the ARW. Why wouldn't they send as many to keep their hold one the continent? Such a force is 3 times the population of New Orleans at the time!
Maybe to keep a army at home and thus they could not send a large force overseas.
CRCV you make a good point, but there have been good reasons for why such a thing would happen. My view is this:
1. Louisiana is unpopular with the French government, what with it being a melting pot of anti-government sentiment,
2. They don't see it as worth saving, given the above, and the incredible distance required to actually get their.
3. The French in the north have been defeated by the Canadians and the south is controlled by rebels. Thus they have no obvious way of regaining a foothold on the American continent. The URA don't like them. The URCN, as it was then, are helping the rebels in the north and the Spanish don't want to get involved.
4. Things aren't great for the French at home right now either, waging a war over a colossal distance would be very unpopular.
This can be made to sound better and put into the last update if people wish. Should I do that?
I would also like to point out that DAL has a, albeit only slightly, different POD. This has Prussia defeated in the War of Austrian Succession, DAL has them defeated in the Seven Year's War.
IMHO you should put those 4 points in the previous update. For me, it is a needed explanation. I thank you for those precisions, which help to understand this update and Louisiana's achievements.
I guess the French situation at home will be detailed in next updates.
I'll do that then.
It will be, well sort of.
I should also add, in reply to another of your questions, that Louisiana is the "Empire of Louisiana" because Emperor Louis-Auguste I has proclaimed it to be so, like Napoleon in OTL France. Most people outside the nation, and in, just call it Louisiana.
And a new update:
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Part 6: The Great American Revolution 1784-1798 Section 2: New Spain and South America:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Whilst the Tejas War was going on, open rebellion was blazing down in Mexico City. The people of the city, led by a Spanish army deserter by the name of Santiago Huerta. This self-named General led the angry rioters to storm the Viceroy’s Palace. The rioters broke down the doors and fought their way past the Viceroy’s guards. However, when they reached the Viceroy’s chambers he had, unsurprisingly, fled New Spain. Having reached the Viceroy’s chambers General Huerta declared himself Emperor of New Spain, as Emperor Louis-Auguste I of Louisiana had done. Things did not go as well for Huerta as they did for Louis-Auguste I. Two days after his seizing of power a second rebel group, the Ejército Popular de Nueva España (People’s Army of New Spain), stormed the, newly named, Emperor’s Palace and killed him. This group’s leaders, the priest Juan Holguín, the rich merchant Osvaldo Fernández and the defected army officer Ramiro Moralez, formed the Consejo Popular de la Nueva España (People’s Council of New Spain) to direct the defeat of the Spanish.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]To this effect Moralez led an EPNE army to attack the port city of Veracruz. The Spanish holed themselves up inside the city and prepared for a siege, whilst waiting for reinforcements from Querétaro to lift the siege. What the Spanish didn’t know was that the EPNE army had met the reinforcements from Santiago de Querétaro on their march to Veracruz and defeated them. Thus Moralez simply camped outside Veracruz and waited for the city to fall. Meanwhile a second EPNE army attacked Santiago de Querétaro, storming the city after the inhabitants, who supported the rebels, opened the city’s gates to them. This began a period of five months, between July 1790 and November the same year in which the EPNE captured much of central New Spain. Veracruz fell in August, followed by Guadalajara a month later, the city of Heróica Puebla de Zaragoza also fell that same month. By November 1790 the EPNE was firmly in control of Central New Spain, their area of control spreading from Yucatan to the Rio Grande southern bank. But Las Californias remained out of their reach. Here a separate rebel group, inspired and backed by the Louisianans and led by Ramón Palacio y Saldaña, the El Imperio de Las Californias (or ILC) held sway. They had defeated the Spanish at Sonoma, Los Angeles and Monterey in July 1790 and had controlled Las Californias ever since. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]The war between the EPNE and ILC began in December 1790, the EPNE’s General Moralez led an EPNE to attack the town of San Luis Río Colorado at the mouth of the Colorado River. The EPNE were in for a surprise, however, for, no sooner had they reached the town and met the ILC army, a Louisianan army appeared at their rear. This army, under General Thomas Alexandre Dumas himself, charged the EPNE’s rear guard and the forces of the EPNE were scattered and fled from the field of battle. The EPNE versus ILC section of the War of New Spanish Independence lasted 3 years, during which the ILC consolidated their control over Las Californias and, with Louisianan help, drove back the EPNE. This 3 year period of civil war is largely regarded as insignificant in the grander scale of things, and only relevant for the establishment of the El Imperio de Las Californias, or Empire of the Californias, as a separate entity to the Repúblicas Unidas de la Nueva España (the RUNE), or the United Republics of New Spain, that was proclaimed on the 30[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] January 1794.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]From 1794 to 1796 the main theatre of the Great American Revolution was in the south of New Spain, as the RUNE fought their way down to the Panama Isthmus. The armies of the RUNE marched south through Yucatan and reached the city of Antigua Guatemala. The Mexican (as people from the RUNE were called, after their capital city) army besieged the city, with the Spanish forces holed up inside. The Spanish decided, rashly, to come out of the city to the Mexicans on the field of battle. This was a foolish move by the Spanish commander, his army were de-motivated and many actually supported the Mexican cause. Thus the Spanish were routed, with half of the Spanish army defecting midway through the battle. The Battle of Antigua Guatemala was a shambles for the Spanish. They had been overwhelmed and their soldiers had, for the first significant time, defected. The city of Antigua Guatemala fell and the Spanish gave up their hold on any territory further north of it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Having lost much of New Spain, the Spanish fought tooth and nail to retain the remainder of their American territories. They cracked down on any resistance in South America, brutally killing hundreds of, supposed, insurgents in Lima and further south. They also fought to the last man to try and prevent any further Mexican expansion. Despite their efforts in New Spain, however, the RUNE reached Panama in November 1796 and captured the city three months later. At this point General Moralez offered the Spanish a treaty, the Spanish would recognise the RUNE and ceded all land north of Panama to them. In return the Mexicans would provide no assistance to rebels in South America. The Spanish Governor of New Granada, Count José Manuel de Ezpeleta of Ezpeleta de Beire, agreed to the deal and the Treaty of Panama was signed on the 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] March 1797. From this point onwards the South American rebels were crushed. Uprisings in Santiago, Lima and Santafé de Bogotá were brutally put down and by 1798 an uneasy peace had settled across South America.[/FONT]
In North America, things were very different to the situation before the revolutions. The Louisianan Empire now straddled the continent as its master, at least militarily, with the Californian Empire as its ally. The URA was unchanged but was a very real threat for Louisiana, thanks to its significantly larger population. The newly re-named Republic of Canada was in a sticky situation, it had been totally defeated by the Louisianas and had lost a large proportion of its land and population. They now had a choice, they could eithern join with the URA or try and get itself back into the British sphere. The RUNE, meanwhile had a mixed bag, it wasn independent, had a relatively large amount of territory and population, but had been acrimoniously defeated by Louisiana and the Californians. Another war, this time between the new nations was already on the cards.
(OOC: Please note that the last paragraph has been added due to the discussion with CRCV below.)
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Part 6: The Great American Revolution 1784-1798 Section 2: New Spain and South America:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Whilst the Tejas War was going on, open rebellion was blazing down in Mexico City. The people of the city, led by a Spanish army deserter by the name of Santiago Huerta. This self-named General led the angry rioters to storm the Viceroy’s Palace. The rioters broke down the doors and fought their way past the Viceroy’s guards. However, when they reached the Viceroy’s chambers he had, unsurprisingly, fled New Spain. Having reached the Viceroy’s chambers General Huerta declared himself Emperor of New Spain, as Emperor Louis-Auguste I of Louisiana had done. Things did not go as well for Huerta as they did for Louis-Auguste I. Two days after his seizing of power a second rebel group, the Ejército Popular de Nueva España (People’s Army of New Spain), stormed the, newly named, Emperor’s Palace and killed him. This group’s leaders, the priest Juan Holguín, the rich merchant Osvaldo Fernández and the defected army officer Ramiro Moralez, formed the Consejo Popular de la Nueva España (People’s Council of New Spain) to direct the defeat of the Spanish.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]To this effect Moralez led an EPNE army to attack the port city of Veracruz. The Spanish holed themselves up inside the city and prepared for a siege, whilst waiting for reinforcements from Querétaro to lift the siege. What the Spanish didn’t know was that the EPNE army had met the reinforcements from Santiago de Querétaro on their march to Veracruz and defeated them. Thus Moralez simply camped outside Veracruz and waited for the city to fall. Meanwhile a second EPNE army attacked Santiago de Querétaro, storming the city after the inhabitants, who supported the rebels, opened the city’s gates to them. This began a period of five months, between July 1790 and November the same year in which the EPNE captured much of central New Spain. Veracruz fell in August, followed by Guadalajara a month later, the city of Heróica Puebla de Zaragoza also fell that same month. By November 1790 the EPNE was firmly in control of Central New Spain, their area of control spreading from Yucatan to the Rio Grande southern bank. But Las Californias remained out of their reach. Here a separate rebel group, inspired and backed by the Louisianans and led by Ramón Palacio y Saldaña, the El Imperio de Las Californias (or ILC) held sway. They had defeated the Spanish at Sonoma, Los Angeles and Monterey in July 1790 and had controlled Las Californias ever since. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]The war between the EPNE and ILC began in December 1790, the EPNE’s General Moralez led an EPNE to attack the town of San Luis Río Colorado at the mouth of the Colorado River. The EPNE were in for a surprise, however, for, no sooner had they reached the town and met the ILC army, a Louisianan army appeared at their rear. This army, under General Thomas Alexandre Dumas himself, charged the EPNE’s rear guard and the forces of the EPNE were scattered and fled from the field of battle. The EPNE versus ILC section of the War of New Spanish Independence lasted 3 years, during which the ILC consolidated their control over Las Californias and, with Louisianan help, drove back the EPNE. This 3 year period of civil war is largely regarded as insignificant in the grander scale of things, and only relevant for the establishment of the El Imperio de Las Californias, or Empire of the Californias, as a separate entity to the Repúblicas Unidas de la Nueva España (the RUNE), or the United Republics of New Spain, that was proclaimed on the 30[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] January 1794.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]From 1794 to 1796 the main theatre of the Great American Revolution was in the south of New Spain, as the RUNE fought their way down to the Panama Isthmus. The armies of the RUNE marched south through Yucatan and reached the city of Antigua Guatemala. The Mexican (as people from the RUNE were called, after their capital city) army besieged the city, with the Spanish forces holed up inside. The Spanish decided, rashly, to come out of the city to the Mexicans on the field of battle. This was a foolish move by the Spanish commander, his army were de-motivated and many actually supported the Mexican cause. Thus the Spanish were routed, with half of the Spanish army defecting midway through the battle. The Battle of Antigua Guatemala was a shambles for the Spanish. They had been overwhelmed and their soldiers had, for the first significant time, defected. The city of Antigua Guatemala fell and the Spanish gave up their hold on any territory further north of it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, serif]Having lost much of New Spain, the Spanish fought tooth and nail to retain the remainder of their American territories. They cracked down on any resistance in South America, brutally killing hundreds of, supposed, insurgents in Lima and further south. They also fought to the last man to try and prevent any further Mexican expansion. Despite their efforts in New Spain, however, the RUNE reached Panama in November 1796 and captured the city three months later. At this point General Moralez offered the Spanish a treaty, the Spanish would recognise the RUNE and ceded all land north of Panama to them. In return the Mexicans would provide no assistance to rebels in South America. The Spanish Governor of New Granada, Count José Manuel de Ezpeleta of Ezpeleta de Beire, agreed to the deal and the Treaty of Panama was signed on the 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, serif] March 1797. From this point onwards the South American rebels were crushed. Uprisings in Santiago, Lima and Santafé de Bogotá were brutally put down and by 1798 an uneasy peace had settled across South America.[/FONT]
In North America, things were very different to the situation before the revolutions. The Louisianan Empire now straddled the continent as its master, at least militarily, with the Californian Empire as its ally. The URA was unchanged but was a very real threat for Louisiana, thanks to its significantly larger population. The newly re-named Republic of Canada was in a sticky situation, it had been totally defeated by the Louisianas and had lost a large proportion of its land and population. They now had a choice, they could eithern join with the URA or try and get itself back into the British sphere. The RUNE, meanwhile had a mixed bag, it wasn independent, had a relatively large amount of territory and population, but had been acrimoniously defeated by Louisiana and the Californians. Another war, this time between the new nations was already on the cards.
(OOC: Please note that the last paragraph has been added due to the discussion with CRCV below.)
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Exactly!
California is their ally yes. Did I not put that in?
I understood that they fought side by side, but that doesn't mean that the alliance would last after the war (it could have been as in the ACW with a French intervention, but no true alliance after that).
But it is true that you have yet to explain the post-war situation, so I might have went a little to fast here.
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I want to suggest a correction of sorts in the treaty of the Sardinian war of Succession about the Indian part. You have mentioned that Marathas were forced to cede territories in southern India to the Hyderabadis or the Nizam more specifically, and in your map showing all the world has the Nizam occupying all of Maharashtra which I think is absolutely ASB because even if the Hyderabadis were able to defeat the Marathas they would at best be granted the territories of the Marathas in Karnataka or if you want to stretch it some parts of Southern Maharashtra not the whole of Maharashtra with the Capital of the Peshwas (Pune) in it. And first of all the Marathas wouldn't ally themselves with the British because there was widespread distrust about them in the populace and most importantly the ruling class of the Marathas which makes an alliance with them out of the question. The Marathas would rather ally with the French against the British not the opposite as you mentioned in your update. The period in question is the period of ascendancy for the Marathas which makes it unlikely for the Hyderabadis to even pull off a fluke victory on the Marathas just the way they never pulled off over the entire period of existence of the Maratha empire.
Sorry if I offended you.
Sorry if I offended you.
Firstly, I make no claim to be an expert on Indian history. Secondly. I would like to point out that the War of Sardinian Succession is after the POD, thus allowing butterflies to change the situation in India. Finally, I have very little knowledge of Indian provinces, cities, etc. and merely used the rivers as a guide, therefore it is unsurprising if there is something wrong with that section. If you are able to, I would be grateful if you posted a map showing a more plausible Hyderbadi gain.
Nope. There has been some rebellion in South America but it was brutally crushed, as per the last update.