For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

A speculation on My part how Soviet Won the Moon Race in TV series.

Korolev survived long enough to made the Modification on L3-Complex architecture.
Instead to design the N1 to death, like Mishin has done after Korolev died.
Korolev goes for Earth orbit rendezvous with Two N1 (the original version with 24 engines and no supercooled propellants)
First N1 bring the L3-Complex in Orbit, follow second N1 with Lunar Trajectory injection Stage (LTI).
They dock and LTI stage bring L3-complex to Lunar orbit.

This mission architecture has several advantages.
by exchange the LTI Propellants from KeroLox to HydroLox could double the Payload mass to Moon like for L3M Complex
That little outpost with 3 cosmonauts for 90 days stay on Moon.
note that NASA talk about Lunar base in first Trailer
 
So does anyone know how this show is actually going to work? Will it be like other streaming platforms where you spend $X per month, or will it be available as a per-episode or per-season for $X download through iTunes?
 

Lusitania

Donor
On Netflix they do both. Release whole season at once or release 1 episode a week.

when I wanted to watch jack Ryan on Amazon I just subscribed for one month watch all episodes and cancel subscription.
 
On Netflix they do both. Release whole season at once or release 1 episode a week.

when I wanted to watch jack Ryan on Amazon I just subscribed for one month watch all episodes and cancel subscription.

Indeed. At the worst, if they put this show out an episode a week, at worst you have to wait a couple months (and try to avoid spoilers) to let the whole show be uploaded to the platform, sub for a month, binge and done. As it's $5 a month that's absolutely no big deal. That said I do truly hate how many subscriptions are now needed to watch the few shows I want to watch- and it will eventually push me back to piracy in the days of pre-netflix at the rate this is going as I absolutely have a limit on how much I can or will spend on entertainment.

On the meat of the show itself- the POD seems vaguely plausible- not entirely so given what i've read and learned about the disorganization and in-fighting in the soviet space program but a few changes here and there, a bit more luck with the N1 and I could see it working... I'm super curious to see how they portray everything from the space stuff to the politics. This is a show i've been keeping my eye on and have wanted to watch for many months now even prior to seeing the well done trailers.
 
I'll definitely be interested to watch the first few episodes and see what they do with it, like Athelstane wrote my main fear though is that they try and introduce too much of a modern mindset into the culture of the period. That said I'm willing to put up with a fair bit of suspension of disbelief when consuming media if the story is good.


A speculation on My part how Soviet Won the Moon Race in TV series.

... the original version with 24 engines and no supercooled propellants.
IIRC simply making it so you could test fire your engines, rather than a couple from each batch and crossing your fingers that the rest were of a similar build quality, would go a long way to improving the situation. Oh that and some filters to stop swarf or the like from being ingested.
 
news on Serie at NYCC

Producer and cast had a panel were explain the Serie and some twist with History

Nixon is so furious about Soviet Success
That he decided to go all-in on the space race, and put a woman on moon.
Also pull the US troops early out Vietnam

Senator Ted Kennedy cancel his plans for a party on Chappaquiddick Island do Soviet Moon landing.
Never had that accident and become president candidate in 1972 and Nixon is now worried about it.

source (warning Spoilers )
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/for-all-mankind-appletv-panel-nycc-2019
 
I find the idea interesting, but, there's two problems:

1 - It's on a streaming service, so can't watch it

2 - The premise has some issues with it. Namely, having Korolev survive his operation, by itself, could never have managed a Soviet Manned Moon Landing.

This is on account of just how far behind they were by 1966, having only really started in 1964/5, some three years later than the US, and with only half the funds Korolev had requested.

I find that with the additional three years, and twice the funding they actually had, and maybe if Korolev had clung onto life a bit longer, then there is a chance - albeit a very slim one - that they could just about squeak through a win there.
 
The premise has some issues with it. Namely, having Korolev survive his operation, by itself, could never have managed a Soviet Manned Moon Landing.

This is on account of just how far behind they were by 1966, having only really started in 1964/5, some three years later than the US, and with only half the funds Korolev had requested.

I find that with the additional three years, and twice the funding they actually had, and maybe if Korolev had clung onto life a bit longer, then there is a chance - albeit a very slim one - that they could just about squeak through a win there.

i speculated that N1 stay in Original configuration, means Mishin do not mess up the Rocket like OTL and OKB-1 goes for Earth orbit rendezvous.
But we have to wait on Series to see if they show the Soviet Side and how they don it

Other news
There a rumor that Apple gave ok for production of season 2 on this Series !
https://deadline.com/2019/10/for-al...-apple-ron-moore-space-race-drama-1202760684/
 
i speculated that N1 stay in Original configuration, means Mishin do not mess up the Rocket like OTL and OKB-1 goes for Earth orbit rendezvous.

Wasn't the primary problem with the N-1 that the thirty engines within the rocket provided alternating levels of thrust? Sounds like a major design flaw for a rocket intended to get someone to the Moon.
 
Wasn't the primary problem with the N-1 that the thirty engines within the rocket provided alternating levels of thrust? Sounds like a major design flaw for a rocket intended to get someone to the Moon.

IIRC, the N1's first stage used Differential Throttling for Pitch Control, while the Centre Ring gimballed on one axis for Roll Control
 
Wasn't the primary problem with the N-1 that the thirty engines within the rocket provided alternating levels of thrust? Sounds like a major design flaw for a rocket intended to get someone to the Moon.

after Korolev, his successor Mishin had to overwork the N1 Rocket for more payload for single launch.
He went from 24 to 30 engines, were 6 in center producing allot violent vibration, next to that supercooled the Propellants, means more stress on the feed lines and tanks.
Next to that ignored the Engine manufacture way of quality control: do a counting-out game which Engine is tested and send rest to N1 manufacture...
 
I find the idea interesting, but, there's two problems:

1 - It's on a streaming service, so can't watch it

2 - The premise has some issues with it. Namely, having Korolev survive his operation, by itself, could never have managed a Soviet Manned Moon Landing.

This is on account of just how far behind they were by 1966, having only really started in 1964/5, some three years later than the US, and with only half the funds Korolev had requested.

I find that with the additional three years, and twice the funding they actually had, and maybe if Korolev had clung onto life a bit longer, then there is a chance - albeit a very slim one - that they could just about squeak through a win there.

With Korolev alive, I think the Soviets could have resolved the N1's problems sooner, but not nearly soon enough to beat NASA to the Moon.

I think you're right, you need an earlier POD.
 
My guess on the spacewalk between the S-IVB complex and the free-flying Apollo capsule is that the former entered MEO as part of an uncrewed test of an uprated Saturn V deemed too risky to be flown crewed. Since NASA didn't want to spend time and money just for that test, the payload and the S-IVB are tested and functioning, and the astronauts are spacewalking from a capsule launched by a proven Saturn IB. The choice of MEO as a parking orbit or whatever was made in order to prove the capabilities of the uprated Saturn V.

I can't see any other explanation. The most dangerous thing during a launch, that would motivate the uncrewed launch, is the rocket itself, since any risk deriving from the payload (like some nuclear stuff) is effective only after launch (at least to the point of requiring an uncrewed launch. I mean, if, say, the radiation from a NERVA becomes too intense during the mission it is a big problem, but during launch you can abort in a matter of seconds).

The other concern could be weight. But then why lanching an entire empty CSM if the crew is bringing another one? And then, all this complications for a 300 kg or so gain? Because of the conditions of the transfer they can't even bring significant amounts of equipment in the empty CSM. This is just too silly.

Speaking of the transfer mode, I am surprised that the engineers on the ground haven't found a way to put a female port on top of an Apollo CM or build some kind of male-male adapter to launch in the SLA of a Saturn IB. But that is probably just a decision made by the authors to spice up things a bit and shoot this cool scene.

Lastly, can a Saturn IB lanch a CSM to MEO? Maybe it has been uprated before the Saturn V?
 
My guess on the spacewalk between the S-IVB complex and the free-flying Apollo capsule is that the former entered MEO as part of an uncrewed test of an uprated Saturn V deemed too risky to be flown crewed. Since NASA didn't want to spend time and money just for that test, the payload and the S-IVB are tested and functioning, and the astronauts are spacewalking from a capsule launched by a proven Saturn IB. The choice of MEO as a parking orbit or whatever was made in order to prove the capabilities of the uprated Saturn V.

The reason this makes the most sense is that it took a long time to set and prepare an Apollo mission. A rescue mission, for example, couldn't be done on the spur of the moment - Skylab Rescue was only possible because they had the luxury of months to throw it together. Recall that Apollo 10 had to launch from LC-39B, because its launch date was too close to that of Apollo 9 to allow adequate time to prep the launch - basically, something like three months from rollout from the VAB to the pad, to launch day.

I suppose that it is possible that the Saturn IVB/CSM was a derelict that had been up there in MEO for months, but then that raises the question of why NASA would want to bother with a rendezvous with it.

Of course, we all may be assuming too much knowledge and commitment by Ronald D Moore and his team (though I think it's unlikely). I guess we wait to find out.
 
Reviews are starting to come in.

They sound...mixed.

Hollywood Reporter:

What takes a little longer to figure out — too long for some, no doubt — is that there's not a lot of fuel in the rocket tanks. For All Mankind is a sprawling, alternative-history take on what would have happened if the United States had lost the space race, falling second to the Soviet Union and then falling behind again when it put a woman on the moon.

When you start thinking about what For All Mankind could have done with an alternative-history approach, kind of like what Amazon's The Man in the High Castle does on Amazon, it's a little disappointing to see that, through seven of 10 episodes, there's not much done with the concept (other than Ted Kennedy became president after Richard Nixon and some equally minor tweaks). It's ultimately just a narrative contrivance to put our country behind and make it angry with an inferiority complex, setting up a plan to get there quickly and get women up there kinda quickly and then maybe set up a military base there, because that's what Nixon is really pushing for as the American political interest revolves mainly around the U.S. versus the USSR.

Which is fine but familiar, even in this alternative history world.

Unless some major twists pop up at the end, it seems like a lot of work for what ultimately becomes a story about astronauts and their wives (and husbands), with some social commentary tossed in when needed. The oddest thing about For All Mankind, which Moore created with Matt Wolpert and Ben Nedivi, is that you're thinking it will be something other when ultimately what it becomes is something more. Its ambition rests on multiple characters and plotlines, with a decreasing sense of interest the more numerous they become (not to mention a lag on the pacing, which could use some of the aforementioned jet fuel to move things along).
CNET:

For its first half, the 10-episode show doesn't always succeed in balancing its storylines. Sometimes it feels like For All Mankind could just be about the group of women training to be astronauts in the face of skepticism, sexism and a steaming pile of microaggressions, partly because the women face plenty such obstacles. One of the candidates, Tracy Stevens (Sarah Jones), is married to an astronaut herself. Another, Molly Cobb (Sonya Walger), is presented as being one of the Mercury 13, a real-life group of women who underwent the same screening as the male Mercury astronauts. In some ways, it's a companion piece to The Morning Show, another series launching on Apple TV Plus that tackles sexism in the workplace in the #MeToo era.

At other times, the show is about a greater identity crisis at NASA. The safety versus daring conflict has been plenty real over the decades. You get a window into the politics and struggles of astronaut life through Edward Baldwin (Joel Kinnaman) and Gordo Stevens (Michael Dorman), who are supposed to be contemporaries of Neil Armstrong and Co, while their spouses grapple with the dangerous jobs of their loved ones.

It's not that the show can't or shouldn't encompass all those elements. It just has a tendency to let certain plotlines wander, only to resurface them, giving you a moment of, "Oh yeah, that's still happening."

One subplot, for example, involves a little girl and her father crossing the US/Mexico border after her mother dies. The girl displays an interest in setting fires, but also, somehow, rockets and space travel. What could be an attempt to broaden the show's scope beyond the elite world of NASA and explore the impact of visible women astronauts on young minds feels awkwardly tacked on.
 

Luath

Gone Fishin'
Mmmm.... disappointing, but so was the first season of Man in the High Castle, but that eventually picked up. Damn, I was really, really pulling for this one.
 
Running commentary on the first episode:

Soviet camera technology apparently outclasses American ITTL.

Leonov's words are a bit heavily scripted--headcanon: the first half was Kremlin scripted, the second was his own ad-libbing. Either way, [joyful squat dancing intensifies]


Seems Al Shepard might be dead ITTL--stealth POD reveal?

Hmm. Wonder if Comrade Leonov IOTL got drunk on July 21, 1969.

One N-1 test in January, 1969 before the moon flight--presumably a complete success. Is that skinny guy supposed to be Werner?

Hard questions about Apollo 10. Aaaand the throttle jockeys are mouthing off to the press.

Effects shot--quality seems about equal to From the Earth to the Moon. Can't complain.

Interesting remarks about 'guts' at NASA before/after Apollo 1.

Side note: This is one garbage video player--doesn't play nice with Firefox, have to refresh periodically. Fittingly, I have to refresh just as Margot is talking about the guidance computer rebooting itself.

Our Apollo 10 crew is suffering the consequences of getting mouthy.

I like this Nixon tape thing they use to provide political commentary.

Ordinarily I'd consider the Apollo 10 astronaut's wife a shrew, but yeah, this guy deserves to get reamed for that.

Saturn V Effects shot is also about FtEttM quality.

Gene Kranz is wearing a black vest--fitting, for mourning colors. And I like his inspirational speech.

The Apollo 11 landing shot is much better, effects-wise.

...o kurwa. That was ballsy, to actually splash Apollo 11.

...psych! :D

...oy. I don't think the LM Ascent Stage is actually rated for that. Not like there's any better idea, but...

First episode has me pretty optimistic so far--though I'm not sure about the plausibility of that ending.
 
Last edited:
Reviews are starting to come in.

They sound...mixed.

Hollywood Reporter:

What takes a little longer to figure out — too long for some, no doubt — is that there's not a lot of fuel in the rocket tanks. For All Mankind is a sprawling, alternative-history take on what would have happened if the United States had lost the space race, falling second to the Soviet Union and then falling behind again when it put a woman on the moon.

When you start thinking about what For All Mankind could have done with an alternative-history approach, kind of like what Amazon's The Man in the High Castle does on Amazon, it's a little disappointing to see that, through seven of 10 episodes, there's not much done with the concept (other than Ted Kennedy became president after Richard Nixon and some equally minor tweaks). It's ultimately just a narrative contrivance to put our country behind and make it angry with an inferiority complex, setting up a plan to get there quickly and get women up there kinda quickly and then maybe set up a military base there, because that's what Nixon is really pushing for as the American political interest revolves mainly around the U.S. versus the USSR.

Which is fine but familiar, even in this alternative history world.

Unless some major twists pop up at the end, it seems like a lot of work for what ultimately becomes a story about astronauts and their wives (and husbands), with some social commentary tossed in when needed. The oddest thing about For All Mankind, which Moore created with Matt Wolpert and Ben Nedivi, is that you're thinking it will be something other when ultimately what it becomes is something more. Its ambition rests on multiple characters and plotlines, with a decreasing sense of interest the more numerous they become (not to mention a lag on the pacing, which could use some of the aforementioned jet fuel to move things along).
CNET:

For its first half, the 10-episode show doesn't always succeed in balancing its storylines. Sometimes it feels like For All Mankind could just be about the group of women training to be astronauts in the face of skepticism, sexism and a steaming pile of microaggressions, partly because the women face plenty such obstacles. One of the candidates, Tracy Stevens (Sarah Jones), is married to an astronaut herself. Another, Molly Cobb (Sonya Walger), is presented as being one of the Mercury 13, a real-life group of women who underwent the same screening as the male Mercury astronauts. In some ways, it's a companion piece to The Morning Show, another series launching on Apple TV Plus that tackles sexism in the workplace in the #MeToo era.

At other times, the show is about a greater identity crisis at NASA. The safety versus daring conflict has been plenty real over the decades. You get a window into the politics and struggles of astronaut life through Edward Baldwin (Joel Kinnaman) and Gordo Stevens (Michael Dorman), who are supposed to be contemporaries of Neil Armstrong and Co, while their spouses grapple with the dangerous jobs of their loved ones.

It's not that the show can't or shouldn't encompass all those elements. It just has a tendency to let certain plotlines wander, only to resurface them, giving you a moment of, "Oh yeah, that's still happening."

One subplot, for example, involves a little girl and her father crossing the US/Mexico border after her mother dies. The girl displays an interest in setting fires, but also, somehow, rockets and space travel. What could be an attempt to broaden the show's scope beyond the elite world of NASA and explore the impact of visible women astronauts on young minds feels awkwardly tacked on.

The best reviews a show can hope for are mixed reviews. Also, first seasons are rarely up to snuff.
 
Running commentary of episode 2:

...that liftoff looks painful. ...yeah, no. That's not how the thing would look like while taking off. They really should have dry-run that sequence in KSP first.

But still, woo! Grumman Lunar Module: saving astronauts' butts in every timeline.

Apollo 10 astronaut Ed Baldwin: still an asshole.

"White is the army and black the baron, that want to bring back the Tsarist throne, but from the Taiga to the Lunar Seas, the Red Army is strongest of all!"

Von Braun's pacifism is a bit out-of-character for a guy who got his start with the US army.

"Creative," eh? Looks like Nixon's gonna break out the slave labor allegations.

Ted Kennedy is letting Nixon have it--history repeats itself; JFK did the same to Eisenhower.

...adultery requires more intelligence.

...shoot, Gene Kranz is being an absolute tool. This is similar to my difficulty getting into Mad Men--the sexism on display was too painful to watch.

Mexican immigrants show up. I can see why some of the reviews characterized this thread as meandering.

I like Tracy. More power to her. It's kind of ironic that, of the OTL astronaut marriages, Frank and Susan Borman were the most stable. And Susan was an actual alcoholic.

Interesting remarks from Baldwin about the ship being his to command after launch--an interesting line pointing to the future militarization of the program. More risk-taking, more seat-of-the-pants flying.

Von Braun's got a Sea Dragon model?!?! Oh shit, that's unexpected! And Von Braun's sermon on the divine purpose of spaceflight is very in-character--that's a well-done scene.

And the other shoe drops--now that's a well-done sequence. Though I must note that Germans who didn't go along with the work had other options. Blaskowitz, at least, wrote a memo against the abuses in 1939--and the worst he suffered was a desk job. Though Von Braun makes a fair point that the allegations come only when he's no longer indispensable.

The closed captions don't work well with Spanish, so the Mexican immigrant scenes are a bit distracting. And I think the pyrophilia is a bit of an unnecessary complication.

Glorious New Soviet Woman stands literally above all Western women! Which means we're in for more painful sexism in future episodes...

All in all, the second episode is even better than the first--definitely ups the ante on everything and starts to look more into the alt-history. And I'm glad to see Sea Dragon get any kind of nod, even if the context doesn't quite make sense--should rather have been a super-duper Saturn V with nuclear upper stage. I do wonder if NTR will make any kind of appearance ITTL.
 
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